Chinese purchase of Su-35
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antiterror13
Brigadier
The purchases (if it is true) wouldn't be too bad, good for Russia and somewhat for China as well. $1-2B is nothing for China. like 1 weeks interest of her massive foreign reserve.
SU-35 is much more modern than Indian SU-30MKI, so China may want to station these birds in Tibet. 24 is perfect number as in China it is a squadron strength.
2 Ladas will be built in China, China may get something of it for sure.
I guess all 24 SU-35 will be assembled in China and China may get a liberty to modify the system to allow it to fire Chinese missiles
so again, I don't think it's bad. Also good for Xi to save Russian face
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plawolf
Lieutenant General
I find that CCTV4 report rather strange, and less credible the more I look at it.
For one thing, there is no source given, if it was from an official Chinese or Russian source, that would normally have been mentioned. For another, it is claimed that the contract was signed before Xi's visit, but if that is true, why has there not been any sort of official announcement during the visit?! A big ticket arms purchase, or indeed any major contact would normally be the kind of news both parties announce at the start of a state visit as headline news, not swept under the carpet and leaked afterwards.
As others have pointed out, the programme the story was broken on was more a chat show. If this had been broadcasted during one of the hourly news programmes, I would take it more seriously.
The additional bits about transports and tankers also seem really out of place, what with the Y20 having just successfully test flown and the original contracts having been in limbo for so many years. It would seem to me that if they could have reached an agreement about those transports and tankers, they would have done so by now, and with the Y20 flying, it just makes very little sense for the PLAAF to order Russian transports and tankers now, as they would at best only be delivered a few years before the first Y20s.
Add all that together and the report just seems less and less credible.
The channel news Asia report cited the people's daily, but I could find no such story on the people's daily site. But that story also claims the contract was signed before Xi's visit, so I think they are just quoting each other.
AMLesAdieux, do you have any more info, or a source for the Chinese defence minister staying behind in Russia?
It could be that the Russians were so keen to get a contract that they were making huge concessions and putting a really attractive offer on the table when Xi was in town, so the Chinese defence minister is staying behind to look over the fine print and see if some sort of deal is beneficial to China. The CCTV people might have got word of this and dug up some Russian reports and jumped the gun reporting it as a done deal.
If the story of China's defence minister staying behind is true, I would be inclined to believe that something is happening behind the scenes. But that is still a long way from an actual contract being signed.
For one thing, there is no source given, if it was from an official Chinese or Russian source, that would normally have been mentioned. For another, it is claimed that the contract was signed before Xi's visit, but if that is true, why has there not been any sort of official announcement during the visit?! A big ticket arms purchase, or indeed any major contact would normally be the kind of news both parties announce at the start of a state visit as headline news, not swept under the carpet and leaked afterwards.
As others have pointed out, the programme the story was broken on was more a chat show. If this had been broadcasted during one of the hourly news programmes, I would take it more seriously.
The additional bits about transports and tankers also seem really out of place, what with the Y20 having just successfully test flown and the original contracts having been in limbo for so many years. It would seem to me that if they could have reached an agreement about those transports and tankers, they would have done so by now, and with the Y20 flying, it just makes very little sense for the PLAAF to order Russian transports and tankers now, as they would at best only be delivered a few years before the first Y20s.
Add all that together and the report just seems less and less credible.
The channel news Asia report cited the people's daily, but I could find no such story on the people's daily site. But that story also claims the contract was signed before Xi's visit, so I think they are just quoting each other.
AMLesAdieux, do you have any more info, or a source for the Chinese defence minister staying behind in Russia?
It could be that the Russians were so keen to get a contract that they were making huge concessions and putting a really attractive offer on the table when Xi was in town, so the Chinese defence minister is staying behind to look over the fine print and see if some sort of deal is beneficial to China. The CCTV people might have got word of this and dug up some Russian reports and jumped the gun reporting it as a done deal.
If the story of China's defence minister staying behind is true, I would be inclined to believe that something is happening behind the scenes. But that is still a long way from an actual contract being signed.
This is the English News from DoD of China:
China, Russia agree to strengthen defense cooperation
( Source: Xinhua ) 2013-March-25 06:50
MOSCOW, March 24 (Xinhua) -- Top Chinese and Russian military officials met here on Sunday, with both sides expressing the hope to further strengthen defense cooperation.
During a meeting with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Chang Wanquan, Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister, said that bilateral defense cooperation is a key part of China-Russia relations.
Through joint efforts, wide-ranging and multi-layer defense cooperation has become a pivot of the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership, Chang noted.
Currently, both sides should work hard to implement the consensus reached by leaders of the two countries, and strengthen military-to-military exchanges and cooperation, said the Chinese minister.
China is ready to work with Russia to tap the potentials and expand the scope of bilateral defense cooperation, so as to lift it to a new level, Chang said.
He cited several key areas in the promotion of pragmatic cooperation between the two armed forces, including high-level contact, strategic negotiation, joint exercise and personnel exchange.
Chang also pointed out that the just-concluded state visit to Russia by Chinese President Xi Jinping has injected new impetus into the two countries' strategic partnership.
"Given the complex international scenario today, China-Russia strategic cooperation and coordination will not only benefit the two peoples, but also help promote world peace and stability," he observed.
Shoigu, for his part, hailed the "unprecedented high level" of the Russia-China strategic partnership. The consensus reached by the top leaders has shown the direction of future development of bilateral ties, he noted.
Russia attaches great importance to mutually beneficial cooperation with China, and is satisfied with the fruitful military exchanges between the two sides, the minister said.
Russia is willing to strengthen coordination with China and further push forward defense cooperation between the two countries, he added.
Editor : Chen Jie
China, Russia agree to strengthen defense cooperation
( Source: Xinhua ) 2013-March-25 06:50
MOSCOW, March 24 (Xinhua) -- Top Chinese and Russian military officials met here on Sunday, with both sides expressing the hope to further strengthen defense cooperation.
During a meeting with Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu, Chang Wanquan, Chinese State Councilor and Defense Minister, said that bilateral defense cooperation is a key part of China-Russia relations.
Through joint efforts, wide-ranging and multi-layer defense cooperation has become a pivot of the China-Russia comprehensive strategic partnership, Chang noted.
Currently, both sides should work hard to implement the consensus reached by leaders of the two countries, and strengthen military-to-military exchanges and cooperation, said the Chinese minister.
China is ready to work with Russia to tap the potentials and expand the scope of bilateral defense cooperation, so as to lift it to a new level, Chang said.
He cited several key areas in the promotion of pragmatic cooperation between the two armed forces, including high-level contact, strategic negotiation, joint exercise and personnel exchange.
Chang also pointed out that the just-concluded state visit to Russia by Chinese President Xi Jinping has injected new impetus into the two countries' strategic partnership.
"Given the complex international scenario today, China-Russia strategic cooperation and coordination will not only benefit the two peoples, but also help promote world peace and stability," he observed.
Shoigu, for his part, hailed the "unprecedented high level" of the Russia-China strategic partnership. The consensus reached by the top leaders has shown the direction of future development of bilateral ties, he noted.
Russia attaches great importance to mutually beneficial cooperation with China, and is satisfied with the fruitful military exchanges between the two sides, the minister said.
Russia is willing to strengthen coordination with China and further push forward defense cooperation between the two countries, he added.
Editor : Chen Jie
SinoSoldier
Colonel
I can see why the Chinese would want to buy the Su-35, but it isn't because of technology. It's apparently their way of making up for the final J-11B batch that was not built due to the preparations for J-15 and J-16. The Su-35S purchase is illogical in the sense that it is going to create a massive logistics quagmire within the PLAAF, both on the ground and in the air. Unless these are immediately redirected to aggressor teams, I don't see how a black sheep could operate smoothly with white ones.
PLAAF still have lots of russian stocks left, from their MKKs and early flanker purchases.
I bet a lot of them are still unfired, and they would've racked up high hours over the years. Even (especially, I would say) the MKKs/MK2s as PLAAF even now do not have quite a plane like it capable of firing such a variety of munitions on such a lethal airframe, they would have flown them to near bits I imagine.
Of course this should change once PLAAF gets J-16 and the navy gets J-15, but until then, MKKs are still a valuable asset, and too few in number.
Su-35s not only help to make up some of the shortfall in SAC production, but give the PLAAF a new toy to play with and simulate what the Indians have. Thrust vectoring capability can simulate F-22s in WVR too. I suspect they will make excellent aggressors, but who knows where they will end up.
I highly doubt they are buying Su-35s for the 117s engine
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The difference between now and 1996 of course, is that the PLAAF doesn't desperately need Su-35s (or Ladas, if what other reports cite is true) the way they needed MKKs or Kilos after the third taiwan strait crisis. This purchase I suspect is to shore up relationships with russia, more than to garner any significant expansion in military capability.
I bet a lot of them are still unfired, and they would've racked up high hours over the years. Even (especially, I would say) the MKKs/MK2s as PLAAF even now do not have quite a plane like it capable of firing such a variety of munitions on such a lethal airframe, they would have flown them to near bits I imagine.
Of course this should change once PLAAF gets J-16 and the navy gets J-15, but until then, MKKs are still a valuable asset, and too few in number.
Su-35s not only help to make up some of the shortfall in SAC production, but give the PLAAF a new toy to play with and simulate what the Indians have. Thrust vectoring capability can simulate F-22s in WVR too. I suspect they will make excellent aggressors, but who knows where they will end up.
I highly doubt they are buying Su-35s for the 117s engine
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The difference between now and 1996 of course, is that the PLAAF doesn't desperately need Su-35s (or Ladas, if what other reports cite is true) the way they needed MKKs or Kilos after the third taiwan strait crisis. This purchase I suspect is to shore up relationships with russia, more than to garner any significant expansion in military capability.
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That is self comforting... As I say nothing short of an outright reject of that agreement will be disaster. After seeing china come out with so much PGM , only to go back on Russian hardware is a terrible short sighted decision. As none of Chinese PGM could be used by Su-35. If Su-35 is such a wonder weapon. IAF would have switch MKI to Su-35 standard. PL-12 cannot be used on Su-35, no mid range data link or update without Russian AWACS support. Whoever support this idea if buying Su-35 is a terrible decision maker. Su-35 is useless. we have already endure so many years by going domestic. why cant we endure a few more years? I hope china MOD will come out and clarify it.
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SinoSoldier
Colonel
The J-15 or J-16 honestly would have made a perfect temporary solution for the J-11B. Even if the Air Force has tons of unused Russian missiles, they would still be an organizational headache within J-11B regiments.
How would J-15 or J-16 have been a temporary solution for J-11B?
I think it's clear now that J-11B was never meant to have any multirole capability, and in the PLAAF, they were to old Su-27SKs and J-11As what F-15Cs were to F-15As in the USAF.
J-11B regiments are all pure J-11B I believe. Some SK regiments have J-11BS as a necessity, and I expect many older flanker regiments to convert to J-11B (soon to be out of production imho), J-16 or J-20.
Old russian stocks would be rerouted to the Su-35 regiment (if it turns out to be real), and regiments with new indigenous planes will have brand spanking new PL-12s to play with. Shouldn't be much of a logistics headache, methinks.