Chinese purchase of Su-35

b787 said:

Let me see.

Su-35 is inferior to J-11? then why you spend 2 billion in them?

That does not make sense.

Why they buy it?

Is not more logic use Aviadarts to see how good is it?

Why buy it if you have a better engine in J-20?

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ougoah said:

Why didn't they just pay cash up front then instead of purchasing a logistics problem?

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b787 said:

Let me see.

Su-35 is inferior to J-11? then why you spend 2 billion in them?

That does not make sense.

Why they buy it?

Is not more logic use Aviadarts to see how good is it?

Why buy it if you have a better engine in J-20?

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b787 said:

The initial deal was China to buy Su-27SK with Russian components.

They bought a 24 Su-27SK batch for $1 billion dollars value in 1992, pretty cheap, later they signed a deal for $2.6 billion dollars for the license of Su-27SK and China broke the deal.

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Plus it is way better than the J-11 at simulating an F-22 for the limited numbers required in an aggressor squadron.

I don't think it is for front line use, as they are expensive compared to China buying larger numbers of J-11.

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If China wanted them for front line use, we should have seen negotiations for a much larger sales package upfront, as China knows what the capability is like.

It would have been like previous Chinese Flanker purchases some decades ago, or the current Indian tenders.

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Engineer said:

...

The Su-35 wasn't in the last military parade, a place where China showed off latest in-service equipment. J-11B was. That says a lot.

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Deino said:

It says nothing. China wanted to show only indigenous products as a matter of national pride ... to try do deduct anything on capabilities from the appearance or non-appearance will lead to nothing.

Therefore this reply hits exactly my point ! It says nothing. China and Russia signed a for most of us still "strange" deal especially since both sides have agreed to tell us close to nothing.
Some here still thinking China does not need such a fighter or that it is some sort of national embarrassment but again IMO it is not that way ... at least there must be a reason or more.

Anyway. That deal is done, they are operational in a regular unit. Simply accept these facts.

Everything else is pure speculation based on missing facts and blaming the PLAAF for that deal simply shows that we don't know anything about the real reasons behind.

Deino

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Andrey Kuzminov
On 21.08.2009 - Time:
Moscow was indignant at the attempts made by Beijing to arrange the sale of an analogue of the Russian SU-27 abroad. Moreover, on August 19, at the MAKS-2009 air show, the general director of the Rosoboronexport corporation Anatoly Isaykin told journalists about the unlawful actions of China's military-industrial complex, which may be in copying Russian SU-27 combat aircraft for its Armed Forces. In particular, the head of the corporation admitted that there are suspicions that "the Chinese side outwardly copied the Su-27, this is what the Russian side was talking about. Maybe it's a fact. " In 1992, China became the first country outside the former Soviet Union, adopting Su-27 fighters. And already in 1995 Moscow sold to Beijing a license for the production of 200 Su-27SK aircraft. These military vehicles called "J-11" China had to host, but the components to them were to come from Russia. The amount of the contract was estimated at $ 2.5 billion. It should be noted that the high interest in the command of the Chinese Air Force for this Russian military vehicle is due to the fact that the SU-27 was originally intended to provide air supremacy. By 2003, having purchased the equipment for the production of 95 J-11 fighters, the Chinese side suddenly refused to supply the remaining 105 sets. In fact, Beijing unilaterally broke the contract. His decision, China explained that the basic version of the "J-11", allegedly, ceased to meet the requirements of the Air Force "Celestial". First of all, they were not satisfied with the lack of agreement in the contract on the transfer of technology to them. Because of what, according to the version of Beijing, the weapons control system supplied from Russia is incompatible with Chinese guided missiles. On the proposal of the company "Sukhoi" to upgrade the Su-27SKM version in accordance with technical partners, the latter responded with a resolute "no."

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The latest reporting from Jane's Defense Weekly indicates that the first 50 Su-27s, worth $450 million U.S., will be assembled from Russian components, with the first two projected to come off the assembly line by the end of 1998. The share of Chinese components will keep growing, finally reaching 70 percent. The AL-31F turbofan engine is not among the items that will be license-produced by China.

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According to sources who toured the Shenyang factory, manufacturing capabilities and procedures are generally poor and could take several years before successfully assimilating Russian manufacturing technologies. A clause in the Su-27 contract stipulates that if Shengyang fails to meet the annual production target of 10-15 aircraft, then Russia's facility at Komosmolsk will provide the substitute aircraft.

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Engineer said:

At the same time, the Russian's opinion of Chinese capabilities were so low Russian thought China would have problem manufacturing even 10 aircraft a year.


So from what I can see, the Russian underestimated China, expected to milk more money from selling assembly kits, then became a cry baby when that plan didn't work out.

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Engineer said:

I'm not surprise that the Russian have a "memory lapse". Western media at that time wrote reports about the deal based on Russian information. Let's see what was said:



So, with exception to the Al-31F engines, it was expected that China would eventually manufacture everything else by herself. The Russian supplied kits were only to get production going.

At the same time, the Russian's opinion of Chinese capabilities were so low Russian thought China would have problem manufacturing even 10 aircraft a year.



So from what I can see, the Russian underestimated China, expected to milk more money from selling assembly kits, then became a cry baby when that plan didn't work out.

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