Chinese purchase of Su-35

MiG-29 · Nov 24, 2012

Lion said:
Those early J-15 prototype already fitted with AL-31F engines. Why bother to switch to WS-10H? You think switching engine without incurring additional cost? As I say, PLA is still very prudent in spending money. Why would they switch out the early J-15 prototype AL-31F engines and put WS-10H without any good reason?

The serial production J-15 painted in light grey naval color are all fitted with WS-10H engines. Because WS-10H offer higher thrust and offer higher take off weight. Test plane do not need to take off with max weight therefore AL-31F engines are perfectly fine for its role of J-15 testing. But operational J-15 will definitely fitted with only WS-10H.

so let me see more thrust, so why not use WS-10 on the prototype that took off from the carrier?
does not make sense use en engine with less power and no steam catapult

Lion · Nov 24, 2012

MiG-29 said:
so let me see more thrust, so why not use WS-10 on the prototype that took off from the carrier?
does not make sense use en engine with less power and no steam catapult

If you are willing to foot the re-engine fee, China are happy to re-fit it... Are you?

Take off and landing test do not require more thrust. A J-15 refuel with half full tank and no weapon payload can easily take off from Liaoning CV. AL-31F engines thrust are more capable of doing that basic job. Plus, J-15 is lighter than Russian Su-33.. Shred 700kg of weight.

Engineer · Nov 24, 2012

MiG-29 said:
haha then why change the Ws-10 and re-engine it with Al-31 for take off from the Aircraft carrier?

No J-15 has ever been re-engine to AL-31 from WS-10. On the other hand, newly built J-15s use WS-10H instead of Al-31.

MiG-29 said:
let me see, the carrier has a sky jump that requieres the Su-33 to take off with max power. so why use Al-31 instead of Ws-10, let me see, you said J-15 did not use Al-31, but this new one does why?

second thoughts after tests?

Al-31 has less thrust than WS-10 is not it?

So tell me why?

Those J-15s flying from the carriers are actually old prototypes. The new J-15s are the ones powered by WS-10H. The theory implied by your question falls apart in light of the fact that China build new J-15 with WS-10H instead of Al-31.

MiG-29 said:
Russia knows perfectly 117S could be copied, they know China needs Al-31s, but you said no more J-15s with Al-31s

I said latest J-15s are flying with WS-10H. Falsely claiming I said no J-15 uses Al-31 is a fallacy called

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and does not support your point in anyway.

MiG-29 · Nov 24, 2012

Lion said:
If you bother to look at the pictures, the plane take off and landing are pt 552 and pt 553. They are never fitted with WS-10H.

yes they are powered with AL-31s it is obvious, but unless the new Su-33/J-15 fly with WS-10 in the coming years i can that the use of a Su-33 with Al-31 is a result of higher reliability.

Specially since you say it has more power, strange the J-15/Su-33 was first flown with AL-31s

Engineer · Nov 24, 2012

MiG-29 said:
so let me see more thrust, so why not use WS-10 on the prototype that took off from the carrier?
does not make sense use en engine with less power and no steam catapult

J-15s with Al-31F taking off from the carrier is not a proof that WS-10 will not be used. It remains the case that you are unable to provide evidences to support your theory that WS-10 series of engines is not ready.

Lion · Nov 24, 2012

MiG-29 said:
yes they are powered with AL-31s it is obvious, but unless the new Su-33/J-15 fly with WS-10 in the coming years i can that the use of a Su-33 with Al-31 is a result of higher reliability.

Specially since you say it has more power, strange the J-15/Su-33 was first flown with AL-31s

That time is year 2009 when first J-15 flown, WS-10H engine is still not mature yet. Now even year 2012 is going to end. Are we going to dig out Soviet era times to talk about?

Move ahead, Mig-29.

Engineer · Nov 25, 2012

MiG-29 said:
yes they are powered with AL-31s it is obvious, but unless the new Su-33/J-15 fly with WS-10 in the coming years i can that the use of a Su-33 with Al-31 is a result of higher reliability.

Specially since you say it has more power, strange the J-15/Su-33 was first flown with AL-31s

Firstly, China is not flying any Su-33. Secondly, J-15 has already been flying with WS-10H.

Schumacher · Nov 25, 2012

MiG-29 said:
...............
Russia knows perfectly 117S could be copied, they know China needs Al-31s, but you said no more J-15s with Al-31s, but the main russian concern is sales Russia wants to offer in the international market better products to sell their jets

Russia took 117S to Zhuhai recently but again no sale. So they are very eager to sell to China.
But 117S has very poor reliability. It had a very embarrassing explosion on a T50 recently.
I don't think they can sell any until they fix the reliability at least.

MiG-29 · Nov 25, 2012

Engineer said:
No J-15 has ever been re-engine to AL-31 from WS-10. On the other hand, newly built J-15s use WS-10H instead of Al-31.

.

wow so then old prototypes uhmm so they prefered to use old aircraft than new aircraft with higher thrust, i see so they went for test a already proven engine to test first on a carrier than their new J-15s with WS-10s, logic, proven designs and reliable are first option

MiG-29 · Nov 25, 2012

Engineer said:
J-15s with Al-31F taking off from the carrier is not a proof that WS-10 will not be used. It remains the case that you are unable to provide evidences to support your theory that WS-10 series of engines is not ready.

you always test the more reliable and proven design, is not coincidence the J-15/Su-33 used Al-31s otherwise the WS-10s would have been used first

Chinese purchase of Su-35

MiG-29

Banned Idiot

Lion

Senior Member

Engineer

Major

MiG-29

Banned Idiot

Engineer

Major

Lion

Senior Member

Engineer

Major

Schumacher

Senior Member

MiG-29

Banned Idiot

MiG-29

Banned Idiot