Chinese purchase of Su-35

I think China may get a little bit benefits from the engine and radar technology. But it hurts a lot for domestic aircraft engine industry. China needs a long term researches and investments in aircraft engine technology. It 's short sight if the deal is true. It's not an urgent need during peace time. When the time Su35 delivers to China. J20 or J31 should be almost ready for entering in service.

AlienCraft said:

I think China may get a little bit benefits from the engine and radar technology. But it hurts a lot for domestic aircraft engine industry. China needs a long term researches and investments in aircraft engine technology. It 's short sight if the deal is true. It's not an urgent need during peace time. When the time Su35 delivers to China. J20 or J31 should be almost ready for entering in service.

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In my personal opinion, every thing depends in the events taking place, Su-35BM is already being delivered to the Russians air force in fact 3 new Su-35BMs will be delivered in december 2012, Saturn already has 117S as an engine in production.
Saturn says Type 30 engine will be flown on PAKFA in 2015, by the time Su-35 could be delivered to China, type 30 is a 17.5 tonnes thrust engine, lighter cheaper than 117S.


There is little information about the new engine of T-50. According to preliminary facts, the engine will have increased thrust and fuel efficiency as compared to AL-41F1. Allegedly, the powerplant will have a thrust of about 107 kN in cruise mode and 176 kN in full afterburner mode.CEO of NPO Saturn, Ilya Fedorov, said in April 2011 that development of the new engine is running ahead of schedule and the first engines will be delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense in 2015. The first serial T-50s should be acquired by Russian air forces the same year.





Комсомольское-на-Амуре авиационное производственное объединение им.Ю.А. Гагарина (КнААПО) завершает лётные испытания первой партии многофункциональных истребителей Су-35С для ВВС России. В полётах участвуют 3 серийных истребителя, имеющие бортовые номера 05-07 «красный». Планируется, что в первой половине декабря самолёты будут переданы ВВС и поступят на вооружение 4-го Центра боевого применения и переучивания лётного состава в Липецке.
three new Su-35 to be delivered in December to the Russian Air force to the Lipetske Air base


China bought 410 Al-31s and is flying J-15 with AL-31s with shows WS-10 is perhaps not ready for mass production specially with a new picture of a J-10B with AL-31s.




Pogyosan is a real guy, not a forum member so if he says talks are taking place is a fact.

So in my opinion both nations are looking for partnership and national gains, China new technology for their air force, Russia more money to finance Type 30 engines, however the Russian side see a risk in reverse engineering of 117S and other technologies


As for the Su-35 fighters, Beijing has repeatedly signaled its readiness to purchase them from Russia, with the latter understandably seeking to prevent a potential copycat production of the Su-35 by China. In this regard, Beijing will hardly guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35, experts say, adding that the more such planes are delivered to China the less copycat-related risks Russia will face. At least 50 Su-35s should be supplied to China so that such risks can be resolved.

Another option is to supply a simplified version of the Su-35 to China, something that analysts say may well be used in practice.

However, the only best way to avoid the Su-35 being copycatted is to reduce drastically the delivery of Russia’s high-tech military equipment to China in the near future. Compensating for potential loses would be possible with the help of domestic orders to this effect.

MiG-29 said:

China bought 410 Al-31s and is flying J-15 with AL-31s with shows WS-10 is perhaps not ready for mass production specially with a new picture of a J-10B with AL-31s.

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Wrong. WS-10 is already in mass production equipping J-11Bs and has been the case for several years.






WS-10A is already flying with J-10B as the picture below shows.


China is also flying J-15 with WS-10.

MiG-29 said:

In my personal opinion, every thing depends in the events taking place, Su-35BM is already being delivered to the Russians air force in fact 3 new Su-35BMs will be delivered in december 2012, Saturn already has 117S as an engine in production.
Saturn says Type 30 engine will be flown on PAKFA in 2015, by the time Su-35 could be delivered to China, type 30 is a 17.5 tonnes thrust engine, lighter cheaper than 117S.


There is little information about the new engine of T-50. According to preliminary facts, the engine will have increased thrust and fuel efficiency as compared to AL-41F1. Allegedly, the powerplant will have a thrust of about 107 kN in cruise mode and 176 kN in full afterburner mode.CEO of NPO Saturn, Ilya Fedorov, said in April 2011 that development of the new engine is running ahead of schedule and the first engines will be delivered to the Russian Ministry of Defense in 2015. The first serial T-50s should be acquired by Russian air forces the same year.

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Комсомольское-на-Амуре авиационное производственное объединение им.Ю.А. Гагарина (КнААПО) завершает лётные испытания первой партии многофункциональных истребителей Су-35С для ВВС России. В полётах участвуют 3 серийных истребителя, имеющие бортовые номера 05-07 «красный». Планируется, что в первой половине декабря самолёты будут переданы ВВС и поступят на вооружение 4-го Центра боевого применения и переучивания лётного состава в Липецке.
three new Su-35 to be delivered in December to the Russian Air force to the Lipetske Air base

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By the time Su-35 could be delivered, China will already have multiple better engines available such as WS-10B, WS-10G and WS-15. China has no needs for 117S.

MiG-29 said:

Pogyosan is a real guy, not a forum member so if he says talks are taking place is a fact.

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False. Pogyosan being a aerospace official in Russia has less credibility than many sinodefenceforum members when it comes to facts concerning Chinese military.

MiG-29 said:

So in my opinion both nations are looking for partnership and national gains, China new technology for their air force, Russia more money to finance Type 30 engines, however the Russian side see a risk in reverse engineering of 117S and other technologies

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China does not operate a charity. Arguably, there is nothing to gain in importing 117S engine implying China will not be bothered to purchase one.

MiG-29 said:

As for the Su-35 fighters, Beijing has repeatedly signaled its readiness to purchase them from Russia, with the latter understandably seeking to prevent a potential copycat production of the Su-35 by China. In this regard, Beijing will hardly guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35, experts say, adding that the more such planes are delivered to China the less copycat-related risks Russia will face. At least 50 Su-35s should be supplied to China so that such risks can be resolved.

Another option is to supply a simplified version of the Su-35 to China, something that analysts say may well be used in practice.

However, the only best way to avoid the Su-35 being copycatted is to reduce drastically the delivery of Russia’s high-tech military equipment to China in the near future. Compensating for potential loses would be possible with the help of domestic orders to this effect.

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Beijing has already signaled that .

The report by the Russian newspaper Kommersant has generated a flurry of Western commentary; however, there is a striking difference between the Chinese-language and foreign-language coverage of this issue. China’s Ministry of National Defense (MND) has denied emphatically that such a deal is in the works, stating the press coverage is “not in accord with the facts” and the Su-35 “does not fit China’s national situation” (Caixun, March 12; Global Times, March 12).

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denying the purchase of Su-35 is more authenticate than Russian officials like Pogyosan who has a vested interesting in selling the Su-35.

俄新网RUSNEWS.CN北京3月9日电 记者阿列克谢•叶菲莫夫报道：中国国防部新闻事务局向俄新社透露，俄罗斯媒体关于中国准备与俄罗斯签署48 架苏-35战机采购合同的报道与事实不符。

中国国防部在书面答复中说明：“近年来，中俄全面战略协作伙伴关系保持健康稳定发展的势头，双方各领域合作进展顺利，成果丰硕。俄中军事合作作为俄中战略协作伙伴关系的重要组成部分，一直在正常开展并不断取得成果，但有关媒体所称‘中俄双方已就购买48架苏-35战机达成一致'一事是没有事实依据的。”

3月6日，俄罗斯《生意人报》援引俄罗斯军事工业综合体一名消息人士的话称，俄罗斯和中国已就4 8架苏-35战机的供应合同基本达成一致，合同总额约达40亿美元。

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At this time, Russia's concern about intellectual property rights is merely an excuse to justify why China has yet to sign any deal and preserve ego.

MiG-29 said:

As for the Su-35 fighters, Beijing has repeatedly signaled its readiness to purchase them from Russia, with the latter understandably seeking to prevent a potential copycat production of the Su-35 by China. In this regard, Beijing will hardly guarantee the protection of copyrights on the production of Su-35, experts say, adding that the more such planes are delivered to China the less copycat-related risks Russia will face. At least 50 Su-35s should be supplied to China so that such risks can be resolved.

Another option is to supply a simplified version of the Su-35 to China, something that analysts say may well be used in practice.

However, the only best way to avoid the Su-35 being copycatted is to reduce drastically the delivery of Russia’s high-tech military equipment to China in the near future. Compensating for potential loses would be possible with the help of domestic orders to this effect.

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Do you have any idea how hilarious this 3 paragraph is? Beijing have not signaled anything about the purchase. All we heard is Russia claim they are selling, but yet, we have not heard one word from China whatsoever.

Then for the next 2 paragraph it is pretty much insulting the Chinese... how they will reverse engineer it.. and the only way to get around this is by NOT selling it to China or sell them a downgraded version.

I think someone forget that this is a buyer's market, the seller is NOT in the position to make any demands, but yet, they got a very funny sales strategy, on one hand claim the customers are interested, on the other hand claim the customers have no honor that they will steal it is technology. In the main while the customer have not even spoken a single word.

If china do not care about intellectual property right. We would have sold J-11b to PAF long ago.

jackliu said:

Do you have any idea how hilarious this 3 paragraph is? Beijing have not signaled anything about the purchase. All we heard is Russia claim they are selling, but yet, we have not heard one word from China whatsoever.

Then for the next 2 paragraph it is pretty much insulting the Chinese... how they will reverse engineer it.. and the only way to get around this is by NOT selling it to China or sell them a downgraded version.

I think someone forget that this is a buyer's market, the seller is NOT in the position to make any demands, but yet, they got a very funny sales strategy, on one hand claim the customers are interested, on the other hand claim the customers have no honor that they will steal it is technology. In the main while the customer have not even spoken a single word.

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What are content the talks between China and Russia about Su-35 i doubt you or me or any of us knows what Pogosyan has talked to China.

The article just reflects the point of view of Pravda but also reflects the concerns some people in Russia have about the sale of Su-35 to China

Engineer said:

Wrong. WS-10 is already in mass production equipping J-11Bs and has been the case for several years.
China is also flying J-15 with WS-10.

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The J-15 take off from the chinese carrier uses Al-31 why? last time you said the Al-31 are for replacement in old Su-27/J-11 is this Su-33/J-15 an old aircraft? is it from 1996?
uhm seems new Su-33/J-15s still use Al-31s

jackliu said:

Do you have any idea how hilarious this 3 paragraph is? Beijing have not signaled anything about the purchase. All we heard is Russia claim they are selling, but yet, we have not heard one word from China whatsoever.

Then for the next 2 paragraph it is pretty much insulting the Chinese... how they will reverse engineer it.. and the only way to get around this is by NOT selling it to China or sell them a downgraded version.

I think someone forget that this is a buyer's market, the seller is NOT in the position to make any demands, but yet, they got a very funny sales strategy, on one hand claim the customers are interested, on the other hand claim the customers have no honor that they will steal it is technology. In the main while the customer have not even spoken a single word.

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What is hilarious is that China has signaled the opposite . Another hilarious thing is that despite the above fact hanging right in front of their face, Russian aerospace officials, Russian medias, and Russia's fan boys repeat the same old lies ad nauseum.

China is not buying the Su-35, pure and simple.

Engineer said:

What is hilarious is that China has signaled the opposite

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. Another hilarious thing is that despite the above fact hanging right in front of their face, Russian aerospace officials, Russian medias, and Russia's fan boys repeat the same old lies ad nauseum.

China is not buying the Su-35, pure and simple.

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it is very hilarious you said Al-31s are pure replacement engines when the latest Su-33/J-15 uses Al-31 wow not for replacement for sure