Thanks, but these are the construction numbers not their operational serial numbers.
Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
- Start date
Thanks, but these are the construction numbers not their operational serial numbers.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
I think we may be looking at the Su35 deal in too narrow a prospective of only the technical merits of the plane against what China already has available.
We have gotten so used to China being in a stable and peaceful environment over the decades that we are entirely missing the point of having weapons in the first place - national defence.
By all accounts, the Russians were fishing for the deal with China showing very little interest until the last few years.
So, what changed in that timeframe?
Thus far, we have focused only on the technical side, and so it didn't make sense because of all the breakthroughs and progress China has been making on the domestic front.
However, you will have to have been living under a rock to not notice the ratcheting up of tensions over the SCS from Hillary and Obama's pivot. With Hillary widely projected to win before the results, was it any wonder China was expecting a continuation of Obama's containment strategy for the next US administration?
The Su35 deal finally signed because China was hedging its bets and starting to plan for war. The modest number was a reflect of the low expectation of the likelihood of actual conflict under Clinton.
The unusual Chinese sensitivity towards confirming the deal and releasing information would make far more sense and take on an entirely different meaning if the Su35 deal really was made because China thought it might actually need the extra planes for war.
I think that in light of Trump's recent words and actions, China may well massively expand its Su35 purchase, with other equipment China preciously passed on also making it into China's shopping cart.
We have gotten so used to China being in a stable and peaceful environment over the decades that we are entirely missing the point of having weapons in the first place - national defence.
By all accounts, the Russians were fishing for the deal with China showing very little interest until the last few years.
So, what changed in that timeframe?
Thus far, we have focused only on the technical side, and so it didn't make sense because of all the breakthroughs and progress China has been making on the domestic front.
However, you will have to have been living under a rock to not notice the ratcheting up of tensions over the SCS from Hillary and Obama's pivot. With Hillary widely projected to win before the results, was it any wonder China was expecting a continuation of Obama's containment strategy for the next US administration?
The Su35 deal finally signed because China was hedging its bets and starting to plan for war. The modest number was a reflect of the low expectation of the likelihood of actual conflict under Clinton.
The unusual Chinese sensitivity towards confirming the deal and releasing information would make far more sense and take on an entirely different meaning if the Su35 deal really was made because China thought it might actually need the extra planes for war.
I think that in light of Trump's recent words and actions, China may well massively expand its Su35 purchase, with other equipment China preciously passed on also making it into China's shopping cart.
I have to add that the risk of a Taiwan conflict due to factors outside of the PRC's control have been increasing for years, as the PRC have stated all along this is a core interest they are willing to fight for.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Trump may be BFFs with Putin, doesn't mean either men control the other.
Also, the whole point is not to seek Russian arms during a conflict, but to built up numbers and reserves to be ready before it starts (or better yet, help deter conflict in the first place).
The decision to buy the Su35 is so the PLA could increase its inventory of modern 4th Gen fighters faster than the production output of Chinese manufacturers.
Equation
Lieutenant General
you lost my friend you are of those who claimed Su-35 was never going to be in PLAAF, i am not going to tell you about geopolitics since it is not the thread and tis is a none political forum.
But you were wrong, China bought it because 117S is far ahead anything China has now, engines take longer to build and design, China can design the J-20 but still is behind in engine design, but who are replying to me all those who claimed the deal was never going to happen, so i will tell you this, this thread shows how the so called experts were wrong, i am happy and i will say my respects to thuang, a honest and humble guy, rest of you were arrogant and now will say things are not even worth to answer, i am like this with this newsyou are like this
No you are missing the point. Russia does NOT have enough money to keep a viable program running for the long term, such as engine development. You are only exaggerating the 117S as "far ahead of anything China has now" because you know and everybody knows that China has been catching up and even surpass some (pretty soon all) Western and Russian technology. Your fake respect to "thuang" is useless because you only like somebody who agrees with your narrow point of view. Your desperation of trying to prove your superiority over China tells me that you have an inferiority complex. The way you wrote tells us about yourself, that you don't want to see the truth that China is doing far better than Russia in every aspect of science, technology, culture, arts, economy, etc. Remember it's ALL ABOUT THE PROGRAM. China's weapons development and research program is ahead of Russia and you know it.
Equation
Lieutenant General
OR helped the Russian to figure out the flaws in their Su35 program so that they can than translate their super late and much delayed T-50 PAK FA program in regards to the engine problem.
b787
Captain
relax, jet technology has multiple applications and companies do not base their technology upon a single product, Russia`s jet engines are managed by the UAC and UEC, 117 is not even their best products and revenue. Al-31 still gives revenue, in fact China just bought a large batch of them in October 2016.No you are missing the point. Russia does NOT have enough money to keep a viable program running for the long term, such as engine development. You are only exaggerating the 117S as "far ahead of anything China has now" because you know and everybody knows that China has been catching up and even surpass some (pretty soon all) Western and Russian technology. Your fake respect to "thuang" is useless because you only like somebody who agrees with your narrow point of view. Your desperation of trying to prove your superiority over China tells me that you have an inferiority complex. The way you wrote tells us about yourself, that you don't want to see the truth that China is doing far better than Russia in every aspect of science, technology, culture, arts, economy, etc. Remember it's ALL ABOUT THE PROGRAM. China's weapons development and research program is ahead of Russia and you know it.
PD-14 is in fact more important than the small sale of 24 Su-35s, because PD-14 assures Russia continuity in the civil market, Russia forced China to buy two pairs of 117 not by 20 million, but by 95 million.
By 2018 PD-14 will be tested in MS-21 and by 2025 this aircraft and engine can be used by multiple countries and programs, in fact PD-14 will spawn an entire family of engines, even one that will power SSJ-100
117S already is operational and in production, is not a paper engine, neither engine coming, but a product listed in UEC page, type 30 is in tests and PD-14 flying in a flying laboratory.
SSJ-100 flies on Russian/french engines but ARJ-21 on american engines and J-10 on Russian engines same is Y-20. C-919 will fly on american engines, and if lucky on a Chinese one, but PD-14 is a program with more information and transparency and a deadline to fly on MS-21 by 2018-2019
the catching up game means the other side also moves ahead.
If you want to know which is the next super power i can tell you is not in Asia, but in the middle east, but of course that is beyond this forum and thread
Equation
Lieutenant General
Enjoy it while it last because pretty soon China will no longer be buying Russian jet engines. But I wouldn't be surprise one day the roll will reverse.
No it doesn't, why because there's hardly any money left in Russia budget to continue on the program due to economic sanctions and such.
Along with China? In the mean time and in the past China has been a super power for thousands of years. To be a super power one have to have good leadership FIRST and than social discipline to progress the economic agenda not only to feed but to develop further along. I don't see neither one of these qualities existing both in Russia or the Middle East.