Chinese purchase of Su-35

b787

b787

Captain
hlcc said:
what's your source for the claim that Tu-204 have equivalent accident rates as B757 & B767? FYI, both B757 & B767 were affected by the Sept 11th terrorist high jacking


The Russian media does tell lies, there are even websites dedicated to exposing the lies in Russian media reports.
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For the number of accidents of each aircraft there are dedicated pages, the only aircraft which have higher rates than B-737 is Tu-154

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just compare SSJ-100 and B-737
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most what you read is propaganda, and in this case Sputnik was right Su-35 was purchased by China despite all the ridiculous times the thread was closed because people said Sputnik is lying Su-35 is not confirmed by China, it is never going to be bought, maybe as charity and see they bought it where are those claiming China never bought Su-35?:)
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
Where the hack did I say the deal is never going to happen? I've been a supporter of this deal all along. You are losing your head.

If this is your way of enjoying the moment, good for you. But is it not some kind of insecurity?

And what does religion have anything to do with people's opinions about su-35, even if they were a bit biased.

I didn't understand why people were so against this deal, but you have been going to the other extreme. That doesn't really make you any better.

b787 said:
you said deal is never going to happen, only that, now you attack me because you have no way to get out of your mistake, the only person i saw was open and honest was Thuang, he admitted the possibility, this thread was opened and closed in ridiculous ways claiming the Russian media was telling lies, now not even a week ago people were claiming close the thread, the whole thread showed your theories wrong.

Now your tactic is go off topic but i do not care i am very happy i proved most of you wrong Su-35 is in China and you even bet with me for an apology, so yes i won:):p
You are like this:mad:
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b787

b787

Captain
longmarch said:
Where the hack did I say the deal is never going to happen? I've been a supporter of this deal all along. You are losing your head.

If this is your way of enjoying the moment, good for you. But is it not some kind of insecurity?

And what does religion have anything to do with people's opinions about su-35, even if they were a bit biased.

I didn't understand why people were so against this deal, but you have been going to the other extreme. That doesn't really make you any better.
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it does not make me better, neither an expert, just i got lucky, but my point was be open, be humble, people here were arrogant and claiming Sputnik lies RT lies, Rostec lies, anything Russian lied, and at the end of the day the Russian media was right, you ganged against me 30 or more versus me, laughing at me attacking at me, but see, most of you were wrong because truth is not own by a crowd, but thruth belongs to it self, Rostec is a good source same Kret, and Spunik never lied they always said soon to be signed when the did not sign it, they were careful, but here ultra nationalism and anti-Russian bias blinded most of you, and you have more than 190 pages to testify for me read it and you will see
 
H

hlcc

Junior Member
b787 said:
For the number of accidents of each aircraft there are dedicated pages, the only aircraft which have higher rates than B-737 is Tu-154

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just compare SSJ-100 and B-737
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most what you read is propaganda, and in this case Sputnik was right Su-35 was purchased by China despite all the ridiculous times the thread was closed because people said Sputnik is lying Su-35 is not confirmed by China, it is never going to be bought, maybe as charity and see they bought it where are those claiming China never bought Su-35?:)
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face palm....... I figured that's where you got your "data" from. How did you exactly calculate your "accident rate"? Did you just divide the # of accidents by the # of particular plane built? Did you factor in the # of flights/departures into the calculation at all?

Compare SSJ-100 with Boeing 737?
How many accidents did SSJ-100 have so far? 1-2
# of SSJ-10 built so far? About 100ish
How many years have they been in service? 3 or 4 years?
How many flight cycles so far? About 120,000

How many accident did Boeing 737 have so far? 142
# of Boeing 737 built so far? over 9000
How many years have they been in service? 50 years
How many flight cycles so far? About 200 MILLION

You tell me which one have a much better accident rate. Apply the same exercise for Tu-204, Boeing 757, 767 etc and you'll notice Tu-204's accident rate is much higher.



As for Sputnik's correct report on the Su-35 deal this time, considering the large # of incorrect/premature Russian reports about the Su-35 deal over the last several years. I'd say it's quite normal to be skeptical of the Sputnik's report when it was released.
 
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longmarch

Junior Member
Registered Member
You do realize that there are people in China in FAVOR of this deal otherwise it would have never happened?

I was for this deal but had no strong inclination, so most of the time I had no interest of joining those heated and opinionated discussion. But when I saw signs of this deal being real, I called it out. That's all I can do as an amateur without insider information.

The notion that somehow this is your personal victory against China's aerospace industry or against members of this forum is just silly, not to mention those statements you made about religion. Your bitterness may not be fully unjustified when both sides have strong opinions, but I don't really see your analysis or observation any more objective than the other side.

You accuse those against this deal anti-Russia. By the same token can they accuse you anti-China? It's just childish.

b787 said:
it does not make me better, neither an expert, just i got lucky, but my point was be open, be humble, people here were arrogant and claiming Sputnik lies RT lies, Rostec lies, anything Russian, and at the end of the day they were right, you ganged against me 30 or more versus me, laughing at me attacking at me, but see, most of you were wrong because truth is not own by a crowd, but thruth belongs to it self, Rostec is a good source same Kret, and Spunik never lied they always said soon to be signed when the did not sign it, they were careful, but here ultra nationalism and anti-Russian bias blinded most of you, and you have more than 190 pages to testify for me read it and you will see
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tphuang

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
b787 said:
For the number of accidents of each aircraft there are dedicated pages, the only aircraft which have higher rates than B-737 is Tu-154

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


just compare SSJ-100 and B-737
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

most what you read is propaganda, and in this case Sputnik was right Su-35 was purchased by China despite all the ridiculous times the thread was closed because people said Sputnik is lying Su-35 is not confirmed by China, it is never going to be bought, maybe as charity and see they bought it where are those claiming China never bought Su-35?:)
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Terrible comparison by the way. B737 has been around for 50 years. It was developed at a time when the crash rates were much higher, so you can't compare it to an aircraft developed in the 2000s. As for SSJ100, it's interesting that you mentioned it's safety because
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by the way, Interjet has to suspend much of its operations today due to grounding of SSJ100.
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There is nothing wrong with China purchasing Su-35. PLAAF wanted it and you can make your own conclusions on what that says about domestic flankers.
 
b787

b787

Captain
tphuang said:
Terrible comparison by the way. B737 has been around for 50 years. It was developed at a time when the crash rates were much higher, so you can't compare it to an aircraft developed in the 2000s. As for SSJ100, it's interesting that you mentioned it's safety because
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


by the way, Interjet has to suspend much of its operations today due to grounding of SSJ100.
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


There is nothing wrong with China purchasing Su-35. PLAAF wanted it and you can make your own conclusions on what that says about domestic flankers.
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the question about accidents is that B-737 has been developed for over 40 years, with around 9200 hulls built and 195 lost its rate is 0.021
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aircraft are measure by accident rate, Tu-204 has only 2 hull loses of 82 aircraft built, its rate is 0.024.

Measuring the rate shows you the difference is not that high, Suhkhoi has 1 accident loss in 120 hulls its rate is 0.008.

This show a lot is propaganda.

What its says the purchase the same thing i said, building an airframe is easier than building the engine
 
supercat

supercat

Major
perfume said:
Reposting from pdf by YuChen -

Credit to Yankesama.

For those who read Chinese this is the absolute best analysis I have seen regarding why China purchased the Su-35 - it answers pretty much all the questions that have been asked so far. Because of the technical details involved, I'm pretty sure google translate won't do it justice :S Maybe when I have some time I'll try and post a manual translation

...
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Some interesting aspects of the article:

- Su-35 completely eliminates the "Transonic Pitchup" problem. Transonic pitchup occurs when a fighter aircraft decelerates (to make a turn) at transonic speed. The nose of the fighter aircraft pitches up severely, which limits the g-force of turning when the turn is started at transonic speed. Su-27 can make a turn at 6g when entering the turn at transonic speed. The Su-35, on the other hand, can make a 9g turn when entering the turn at transonic speed. The Su-35 achieves this by using digital fly-by-wire and thrust vectoring.

- Su-35 can take off from an airport in Guangdong (广东湛江基地), engage in dog fights over the South China Sea, and fly back without aerial refueling.

- The author thinks that Russia still leads in the integration of flight control, aerodynamics (thrust-vectoring I assume?), and structure design (high strength titanium components I guess?), China is better at avionics, radar/fire control, AA missiles, and precision munitions.

- The Chinese are confident that they can completely integrate Su-35 into the Chinese combat systems. The 24 Su-35s will all be delivered before the end of 2018. China will evaluate if they will purchase more at that time - I guess it all depends on China's domestic production rate.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
supercat said:
Some interesting aspects of the article:

- Su-35 completely eliminates the "Transonic Pitchup" problem. Transonic pitchup occurs when a fighter aircraft decelerates (to make a turn) at transonic speed. The nose of the fighter aircraft pitches up severely, which limits the g-force of turning when the turn is started at transonic speed. Su-27 can make a turn at 6g when entering the turn at transonic speed. The Su-35, on the other hand, can make a 9g turn when entering the turn at transonic speed. The Su-35 achieves this by using digital fly-by-wire and thrust vectoring.

- Su-35 can take off from an airport in Guangdong (广东湛江基地), engage in dog fights over the South China Sea, and fly back without aerial refueling.

- The author thinks that Russia still leads in the integration of flight control, aerodynamics (thrust-vectoring I assume?), and structure design (high strength titanium components I guess?), China is better at avionics, radar/fire control, AA missiles, and precision munitions.

- The Chinese are confident that they can completely integrate Su-35 into the Chinese combat systems. The 24 Su-35s will all be delivered before the end of 2018. China will evaluate if they will purchase more at that time - I guess it all depends on China's domestic production rate.
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In a nutshell, the PLAAF's woes would be resolved by the time the TVC variant of the WS-10IPE goes into production. This engine allegedly is more efficient than previous iterations (extends range of aircraft) as well as capable of higher thrust (145 kN is rumored).
 
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