Chinese purchase of Su-35

plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
MiG-29 said:
Or there is another fact

Saturn still makes money, WS-10 can not be refitted into old airframes, yeah it is obvious they forgot to make the engine easy to refit to airframes already using Al-31 , it is logic They thought let us give work to saturn since most of aircraft use Al-31, the best way is to make those airframes iuncapable of use WS-10

Wow logic very good logistics:D
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Yes, because making your new indigenous engines able to work on aircraft that uses an existing (Russian) engine is a top design priority for all engine designers. :rolleyes: Guess the Americans, Europeans, even the Russians themselves really messed up when their new generation engines would not work on existing aircraft designed to use an existing engine. :rolleyes:

The WS10 started before the Chinese knew what an AL31 looked like close up, and has a very different design because it uses a different design approach based on western engine design philosophy rather than Russian.

To suggest that it was somehow an oversight that the WS10A was not a clone of the AL31F is quite a feat in metal aerobics and akin to faulting a German Shepherd for not being a Bulldog. Do you actually think these things through before you post them?
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
plawolf said:
Yes, because making your new indigenous engines able to work on aircraft that uses an existing (Russian) engine is a top design priority for all engine designers. :rolleyes: Guess the Americans, Europeans, even the Russians themselves really messed up when their new generation engines would not work on existing aircraft designed to use an existing engine. :rolleyes:

The WS10 started before the Chinese knew what an AL31 looked like close up, and has a very different design because it uses a different design approach based on western engine design philosophy rather than Russian.

To suggest that it was somehow an oversight that the WS10A was not a clone of the AL31F is quite a feat in metal aerobics and akin to faulting a German Shepherd for not being a Bulldog. Do you actually think these things through before you post them?
Click to expand...

good logic so Saturn will re-engine the rest of the Su-27 chinese fleet wow so then saturn is right when they say:





During the last two and a half years China has acquired Russian engines to the amount of $4 billion; thanks to these contracts Salut has workload until 2015. It is expected that China will order more AL-31F engines in future (this refers to the high-powered modifications). At that the 140 ordered engines will have the increased thrust.
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L

Lion

Senior Member
MiG-29 said:
good logic so Saturn will re-engine the rest of the Su-27 chinese fleet wow so then saturn is right when they say:





During the last two and a half years China has acquired Russian engines to the amount of $4 billion; thanks to these contracts Salut has workload until 2015. It is expected that China will order more AL-31F engines in future (this refers to the high-powered modifications). At that the 140 ordered engines will have the increased thrust.
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Click to expand...

That is the optimism of themselves(Russian). Doesn't reflect the intention of Chinese counterpart. Latest new is Chinese is not interested in 117S.
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
MiG-29 said:
okay let me see


China develops WS-10 to replace Al-31 but old jets that already use Al-31 can not use WS-10, so then China lets Saturn still replace more than 290 Al-31s on Su-27s and 120 Al-31s on J-10s so 145 Su-27s will get Al-31s and 120 J-10s brand new Al-31s.


That is a real good business for Saturn and by the way not a good way of getting rid of Russian dependance in engines
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Actually, design work for WS-10 started before Al-31s were imported but was no where in a ready state. Chinese engineers simply went with whatever engine available at that time which happens to be the Al-31F.

Arguably, China already got rid of its dependency on Russian engines. Chinese new Flanker variants are all using WS-10A, while old variants such as J-11A (Su-27) are meeting their service life with some sent to the scrap yard. J-10B which uses WS-10A is also about to go into production, while J-10A will go out of production thereby discontinuing the need of new Al-31s. The previous batch of Al-31s that China purchased may well be the last batch.
 
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MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Engineer said:
Actually, design work for WS-10 started before Al-31s were imported but was no where in a ready state. Chinese engineers simply went with whatever engine available at that time which happens to be the Al-31F.

Arguably, China already got rid of its dependency on Russian engines. Chinese new Flanker variants are all using WS-10A, while old variants such as J-11A (Su-27) are meeting their service life with some sent to the scrap yard. J-10B which uses WS-10A is also about to go into production, while J-10A will go out of production thereby discontinuing the need of new Al-31s. The previous batch of Al-31s that China purchased may well be the last batch.
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Yes they got rid by buying 410 Al-31 in 2012 of the 1000 Al-31 they bought
 
S

Schumacher

Senior Member
First Indonesia chose legacy F16 over Su35, now even India chose old Su30 instead.
Looks like Su35 will end up not having any foreign sales at all.
Russia is learning that you can't expect buyers to pay more just because you give it a new coat of paint, new name & maybe new leather seat.
 
J

jackliu

Banned Idiot
Schumacher said:
First Indonesia chose legacy F16 over Su35, now even India chose old Su30 instead.
Looks like Su35 will end up not having any foreign sales at all.
Russia is learning that you can't expect buyers to pay more just because you give it a new coat of paint, new name & maybe new leather seat.
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Or that if you keep saying someone is interested for the... 5th time or so when they are not.
 
S

samawat

New Member
According to russian newspaper "Vedomosti" russia and china, came to an preliminary agreement, regarding delivery of 24 su 35, starting after 2015. Terms of the contract, are to be negotiated, during the russian MOD Sergey Shoigu to china in november :
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Original article is unavaible, since, for acces subscription is required
 
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