Interesting... a shake down on China? I don't think Russian are that stupid.
Chinese purchase of Su-35
- Thread starter flyzies
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Interesting... a shake down on China? I don't think Russian are that stupid.
Is this a russian site? i have read it and havent found anything threatful. Of course the russian government wants to solve this issue, but this article doesnt imply that there is any kind of "threat" to china.
It's not an actual threat, just that I don't think it will go down well since china probably will not acknowledge the russian's statements since they would consider the J-11(which i think is what this issue is mainly about) variants to be sufficiently different from russian Su-27s.
And I think the main reason russia is doing this is to see if they can get any money out of it, like royalties, without actually have to do any work.
Even the J-31 could be scraped by the fish hook as it currently uses russian engines.
And I think the main reason russia is doing this is to see if they can get any money out of it, like royalties, without actually have to do any work.
Even the J-31 could be scraped by the fish hook as it currently uses russian engines.
Engineer
Major
In other words, 117S is not a F-119's equivalent, reinforcing my point that China has no need for 117S. Since China has no need for the most valuable thing on Su-35, the Su-35 is worthless to China.
As for 117, it is not for sale and is not used on Su-35. Even if it is, China still does not need 117 as China has WS-15 which will be ready around the same time.
LMAO. You "do not know" does not have any relation to WS-10A's status whatsoever. WS-10A is in serial production and that is a fact.
As for AL-31F, the primary reason China still buys it is to equip existing aircraft that are not designed to take on WS-10A. New engine type requires redesign of the inlet, which in turn leads to structural modification of the aircraft. For example, J-11B's inlet is slightly bigger than standard Su-27 inlet to match the flow rate of WS-10A. That is why only newly designed aircraft such as J-10B, J-11B, J-15 and J-16 are equip with WS-10A.
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There is a report from Zhuhai airshow that PLA is not interested in 117S.
Russian exhibited 117S in Zhuhai airshow. There representatives were interviewed. Russian are very interested in selling 117S to PLA, but they have not received any inquiries from PLA so far.
So this really cut into the argument that China is trying to get 117s by buying Su-35.
Anybody remember Russian booth display the 117S engine at Zuhai 2012? To say Russian not willing to sell 117S engine sound like some fake attempt. If Russian not willing to sell 117S , why bother to put up a 117S engine for display at Zuhai 2012?
Unfortunately, Chinese is not interested.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
okay let me see
China develops WS-10 to replace Al-31 but old jets that already use Al-31 can not use WS-10, so then China lets Saturn still replace more than 290 Al-31s on Su-27s and 120 Al-31s on J-10s so 145 Su-27s will get Al-31s and 120 J-10s brand new Al-31s.
That is a real good business for Saturn and by the way not a good way of getting rid of Russian dependance in engines
Another false logic, just because China is using AL-31, does not mean it cannot get rid of Russian dependance in engines. Clearly they are working on their own WS-10A which is mass equipping their J-11B fleet.
And you do know changing engine is not like plugging and unplugging a USB flash drive right? You have to totally rebuild the engine bay, connection it to the jet and writing a new FBW software, which would take years and billions of RMB, and many valuable engineers which is working on other projects.
So why bother if they can get existing AL-31 for cheap?
The real indication of their progress will be show in the next 5 years, we'll see how many of the new jet coming online are powered by Chinese or Russian engines.
As of right now here is what we know, one of J-20 is powered by WS-10, and we have see J-10B prototype also powered by WS-10.... but for some reason I don't think you are going to accept this fact.
plawolf
Lieutenant General
Oh forget it Jack, haters will hate and trolls will troll.
If China did in fact re-engineer all their Russian made Su27s and Su30s to use WS10As, the usual suspects would be laughing at how insecure and wasteful China is that it had to re-invent the wheel just for the sake of 'saving face' and put in a Chinese engine when it was far cheaper, quicker and less of a logistical problem (China already invested billions and trained up hundreds if not thousands of highly skilled workers for it's AL31 overhaul facility on top of all the ground crews at air force bases, are they all to be let go or retrained on the WS10A now? How long would that take and how much would that cost?) to just buy new engines from Russia and plug and play.
They will probably also spin some tale about how it's not China not willing to buy more AL31s, but rather that Russia is refusing to sell them more whatever flavor of the week reason they can dream of.
If China did in fact re-engineer all their Russian made Su27s and Su30s to use WS10As, the usual suspects would be laughing at how insecure and wasteful China is that it had to re-invent the wheel just for the sake of 'saving face' and put in a Chinese engine when it was far cheaper, quicker and less of a logistical problem (China already invested billions and trained up hundreds if not thousands of highly skilled workers for it's AL31 overhaul facility on top of all the ground crews at air force bases, are they all to be let go or retrained on the WS10A now? How long would that take and how much would that cost?) to just buy new engines from Russia and plug and play.
They will probably also spin some tale about how it's not China not willing to buy more AL31s, but rather that Russia is refusing to sell them more whatever flavor of the week reason they can dream of.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Or there is another fact
Saturn still makes money, WS-10 can not be refitted into old airframes, yeah it is obvious they forgot to make the engine easy to refit to airframes already using Al-31 , it is logic They thought let us give work to saturn since most of our aircraft use Al-31, the best way is to make those airframes uncapable of use WS-10
Wow logic very good logistics
a Al-31 cost 3.5 million multiplied for 410 equals 1.435 billion dollars just to re-engine half of the Su-27 fleet and half of J-10 fleet very good explanation
Probably Pogyosan is lying, they are not in talks
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