Chinese purchase of Su-35

PLANAF could still be considered as frugal and fiscally conservative judging by its history. They are certainly smart enough to avoid a logistics and maintenance nightmare when you buy major weaponry from dozens of countries.

117s is more advanced than the WS-15 at this point but buying a large quantity of outdated planes for its engines is simply foolish beyond belief.

@mack8

just take it easy, this is a forum anyways

cn_habs said:

PLANAF could still be considered as frugal and fiscally conservative judging by its history. They are certainly smart enough to avoid a logistics and maintenance nightmare when you buy major weaponry from dozens of countries.

117s is more advanced than the WS-15 at this point but buying a large quantity of outdated planes for its engines is simply foolish beyond belief.

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Do you mean more mature as opposed to advanced? WS-15 is a true F-119 equivalent while 117S is not, so the former should be more advanced than the latter. The maturity of 117S engine is also questionable and may have been rushed, since PAKFA's flame out incidents suggest the engines have reliability issues.

Engineer said:

Do you mean more mature as opposed to advanced? WS-15 is a true F-119 equivalent while 117S is not, so the former should be more advanced than the latter. The maturity of 117S engine is also questionable and may have been rushed, since PAKFA's flame out incidents suggest the engines have reliability issues.

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A detail 117S is not equal to 117, both are different engines, 117S is in production, 117 only in tests and will be replaced by 117 stage II by 2016,

Stage II is supposed to be better than F119 or even F135, WS-15 is not flying niether in tests, while 117 is.

To know how good are those engines well we need to wait until 2018 but sure China bought 410 al-31 in 2011-2012, i do not know why they will buy so much engines if WS-10 is so reliable.


It looks more like WS-10 still is in prototype form and China still relies on Al-31 for its aircraft fleet

MiG-29 said:

A detail 117S is not equal to 117, both are different engines, 117S is in production, 117 only in tests and will be replaced by 117 stage II by 2016,

Stage II is supposed to be better than F119 or even F135, WS-15 is not flying niether in tests, while 117 is.

To know how good are those engines well we need to wait until 2018 but sure China bought 410 al-31 in 2011-2012, i do not know why they will buy so much engines if WS-10 is so reliable.


It looks more like WS-10 still is in prototype form and China still relies on Al-31 for its aircraft fleet

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I guess you didn't learn this from your N years of being human: DON'T wildly assume and make a stupid hypothesis just because something else irrelevant happened.

Buying 410 AL-31 DOESN'T mean there's necessarily be any reliability issues with WS-10. There's NEITHER direct causations, nor any correlations. You failed.

In case you need a better example to help you understand, in other words I can't assume you probably fell on your head when you're a kid simply because you've just made a very stupid statement.

Your last post is perhaps the most ridiculous thing I've seen all day. Buying 410 AL-31 = WS-10 reliability issues...LOL what's next? Drinking Pepsi = Coke's poisonous?

Oh let's not forget, mig's logic is: If WS-10 has reliability issues, therefore WS-10 is only a prototype. LOL
Let's play a little game shall we according to mig's logic. If mig's logic has fallacy issues, therefore [fill in the blanks].

I gotta love how your mind works man. We have an EEG for studying brainwaves here on my campus for the cognitive psychology department. Can you come in this afternoon? You will provide me a very good topic for my thesis paper. I'm surprised I already have my thesis figured out that quick.

Up to date, there is not a single Su-35 has been sold to anywhere. 2012 will be gone soon. Can we see China order
Su-35's?

A.Man said:

Up to date, there is not a single Su-35 has been sold to anywhere. 2012 will be gone soon. Can we see China order
Su-35's?

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I highly doubt it. China has everything filled in for what Su-35 can do, if I'm not mistaken. I also don't even think China needs Su-35 at this point already. If this deal is to materialize, China would've done so for a long time ago, not wait until now where it's got its own prototype J-20, J-31 being tested while J-10A/B,J-11s,J-15s are already rolling out.

Russia wants to resolve with China the issue of 'producing russian aviation techs without license', hopefully signing an agreement of some sort.

Sound like a threat to me...the sooner China can become non-reliant on everything (mainly AL-31) Russian, the better.

MiG-29 said:

China still buys Al-31F

see


In February China bought 140 AL-31 engines for the SU 27/30 fighter jets, and for its domestically designed fighter planes, worth $700 million.Russian military exports in 2013 amounted to $13 billion, with 15 percent being exports to China

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see

Beijing is interested in buying Russia's new Su-35 multirole fighter, according to the President of Russia's United Aircraft Corporation (UAC) Mikhail Pogosyan. **"The Chinese are showing interest in this jet. But we have agreements that we disclose information only upon reaching actual agreements. So, I am not going to comment on the pace of negotiations," Pogosyan said at the China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition in Zhuhai.

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That's good evidence the Chinese jet engine industry doesn't have its act together yet.

Blackstone said:

That's good evidence the Chinese jet engine industry doesn't have its act together yet.

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Russia buys toys, clothes, furniture and a million other things from China, is that also good evidence none of those Russian industries have their act together?

The decision to buy new AL31Fs for the Su27 and Su30 fleet could easily be based on economics rather than technical issues.

Most of those Russian built Flankers were bought in the early to mid 90s, they are getting a little long in the tooth and some of the earliest Su27s were retired as early as 2009. It would not be at all unusual if the PLAAF decided it just wasn't worth the effort and money to retrofit WS10As into those aging airframes and only get a few years of use of out them before the planes need to be retired. In that case, it would make more sense to just buy another batch of AL31Fs to tide the planes over until they use up the remaining airframe hours and are retired.