plawolf
Lieutenant General
Yawn. How is this any different than all the other times Russia has tried to push the Su35 on China? The only difference I can see is that the Russians are getting more aggressive in their marketing, which is more an indication of their growing desperation rather than actual Chinese interest in my view.
When you look at notable Russian fighter sales in the last few years, it's not hard to see why the Russians might be getting more desperate since there has not been any big wins for the Russians or the Su35. In fact, it seems the Su35 is not even coming close in any of the major fighter deals of recent years, and as the years goes by and 5th gens like the F35 and PAKFA, J20 and J31 gets nearer to operational status, the worse the sales prospects are for a legacy fighter like the Su35. Hell, even today, the likes of the Rafale and Typhoon would be far more attractive to most buyers, and the Chinese are getting the J11B and J10B, so where does the Su35 fit in really?
The Su35 is not without it's merits, but its about 10 years too late to be of much interest to the Chinese.
Those who are still insisting that the Chinese have issues with engines are either a few years out of date with their info, or just refusing to accept the new reality. Chinese made WS10As are powering all new built J11 variants, and when you look at the history of modern turbofan engine development, the WS10A is hardly a real exception.
When the US first started to bring in modern turbofans, they also had all sorts of problems and headaches. The F16 didn't earn the nickname 'lawdart' without reason, and even the twin engine F14 had more than it's fair share of engine related crashes.
How many engine related crashes has WS10A powered fighters had exactly? What is more preferable - a few extra years in design and development or a rash of needless crashes and lost lives?
Once again, looking back at history, once the teething problems with the first turbofans were solved, subsequent designs progressed far more smoothly and quickly in every country that has mastered the art. There is no reason or indication that this trend would be any different with the Chinese.
It's quite funny in that when you look at western and Russian aviation exports analysis modern Chinese developments, you can almost see the 5 stages of grief.
First comes denial - the J20 is PS/tech demonstrator only.
Then there is anger - damn the Chinese and their cyberspying! The J20 is too long/ too ugly/ too whatever!
Next came the bargaining - ok, so the Chinese can design 5th gen fighters now, we will very reluctantly allow you that, but we get to keep claiming their engines are crap ok?! Also, the J20 might not be a tech demo, but come on, it's long-ish-looking-maybe, so we can dismiss it as a striker right?
We have even started to see some signs of depression, like the muted response to the J31 where western experts cannot really summon up the energy to give it a proper bashing.
Maybe some day in the future we might see acceptance, but we are just not there yet are we?
When you look at notable Russian fighter sales in the last few years, it's not hard to see why the Russians might be getting more desperate since there has not been any big wins for the Russians or the Su35. In fact, it seems the Su35 is not even coming close in any of the major fighter deals of recent years, and as the years goes by and 5th gens like the F35 and PAKFA, J20 and J31 gets nearer to operational status, the worse the sales prospects are for a legacy fighter like the Su35. Hell, even today, the likes of the Rafale and Typhoon would be far more attractive to most buyers, and the Chinese are getting the J11B and J10B, so where does the Su35 fit in really?
The Su35 is not without it's merits, but its about 10 years too late to be of much interest to the Chinese.
Those who are still insisting that the Chinese have issues with engines are either a few years out of date with their info, or just refusing to accept the new reality. Chinese made WS10As are powering all new built J11 variants, and when you look at the history of modern turbofan engine development, the WS10A is hardly a real exception.
When the US first started to bring in modern turbofans, they also had all sorts of problems and headaches. The F16 didn't earn the nickname 'lawdart' without reason, and even the twin engine F14 had more than it's fair share of engine related crashes.
How many engine related crashes has WS10A powered fighters had exactly? What is more preferable - a few extra years in design and development or a rash of needless crashes and lost lives?
Once again, looking back at history, once the teething problems with the first turbofans were solved, subsequent designs progressed far more smoothly and quickly in every country that has mastered the art. There is no reason or indication that this trend would be any different with the Chinese.
It's quite funny in that when you look at western and Russian aviation exports analysis modern Chinese developments, you can almost see the 5 stages of grief.
First comes denial - the J20 is PS/tech demonstrator only.
Then there is anger - damn the Chinese and their cyberspying! The J20 is too long/ too ugly/ too whatever!
Next came the bargaining - ok, so the Chinese can design 5th gen fighters now, we will very reluctantly allow you that, but we get to keep claiming their engines are crap ok?! Also, the J20 might not be a tech demo, but come on, it's long-ish-looking-maybe, so we can dismiss it as a striker right?
We have even started to see some signs of depression, like the muted response to the J31 where western experts cannot really summon up the energy to give it a proper bashing.
Maybe some day in the future we might see acceptance, but we are just not there yet are we?
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