Don't think anyone has reliable info on that. WS-15 is supposed to power J-XX and we all know how reliable J-XX related info are these days.
Chinese Engine Development
- Thread starter jackbh
- Start date
Don't think anyone has reliable info on that. WS-15 is supposed to power J-XX and we all know how reliable J-XX related info are these days.
EDIATH
Junior Member
That's fantastic news! Well done, Xian!(?)
Am I correct to assume Taishan would be ready for the exported F-17/FC1 within in a year or two, if the airborne tests are going smoothly (since it was developed from the mature RD33)?
but is't WS-13 clone copy of RD-93,the russian accuse ukraine of assisting AVIC to clone copy the engine.
AESA is hardly a cheap thing, and radar account for 20%+ of the total cost for a modern fighter.
Some industry insiders (the Project director of China's AWACS) claimed China now has able to produce the AESA radar installed on the AWACS at roughly 1/20 the cost comparing it was 5 years ago.
I guess similar scale of cost reduction can be made in the AESA installed on J-XX.
But of cource, by no means that will made AESA a cheap toy, some guys from CAC claimed the price tag for the AESA for this J-XX is almost the same as a brand new J-8 fighter (which is around 15-20million USD at the moment).
Since the J-XX is likely to cost at around 80-120 million USD per unit, so 15-20million USD per AESA is still reasonable, especially considering cost-reduction for mass production version of AESA is still possible.
Some industry insiders (the Project director of China's AWACS) claimed China now has able to produce the AESA radar installed on the AWACS at roughly 1/20 the cost comparing it was 5 years ago.
I guess similar scale of cost reduction can be made in the AESA installed on J-XX.
But of cource, by no means that will made AESA a cheap toy, some guys from CAC claimed the price tag for the AESA for this J-XX is almost the same as a brand new J-8 fighter (which is around 15-20million USD at the moment).
Since the J-XX is likely to cost at around 80-120 million USD per unit, so 15-20million USD per AESA is still reasonable, especially considering cost-reduction for mass production version of AESA is still possible.
Who say WS-13 is a clone of RD-93, the russian? Kanwa?
WS-13 is an indegenious engine (might be) basing on RD-93, but is actually a modified version of the RD-93. It had 10% more thrust, digital authority control system and solid titanium alloy fan blades.
You people bandy words like 'clone' or 'copy' around as if it's no big deal. I assure you it is great mistake. Making a machine based on another is not taking book to photocopying, it's a lot harder than you think.
It also has much difference in degree of 'clone'.
On spectrum, having:
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, with assmebly lines and kits provided. [Example early J-11]
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, with assmebly lines and some locally made components [Example mid J-11]
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, setting up local assembly lines.
-Copy with assistance of some of original crew, and with actual item to be copied
-Copy with assistance of some of original crew, without actual item to be copied
-Copy without assistance of original crew, with actual item to be copied.
-Copy based on blueprints and technical data obtained.
-Copy based on open-source information.
These run whole spectrum from 'easy as setting up an assembly line' [i.e. not that easy] to 'just like designing new'.
A clue, original design staff may have very little idea about manufacturing. They can give you technicaldata and on how things to look, but how to make thing, they cannot tell. If I give full design data on engine blade and shape, can you magically create machine set to make blade? How to fit all together? How to time heat treatments so parts do not damage each other? What tolerances acceptable? Material, how to be manufactured?
The next person who says 'clone' as if use photocopier will be beaten with sticks.
It also has much difference in degree of 'clone'.
On spectrum, having:
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, with assmebly lines and kits provided. [Example early J-11]
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, with assmebly lines and some locally made components [Example mid J-11]
-Copy with assistance of original manufacturer, setting up local assembly lines.
-Copy with assistance of some of original crew, and with actual item to be copied
-Copy with assistance of some of original crew, without actual item to be copied
-Copy without assistance of original crew, with actual item to be copied.
-Copy based on blueprints and technical data obtained.
-Copy based on open-source information.
These run whole spectrum from 'easy as setting up an assembly line' [i.e. not that easy] to 'just like designing new'.
A clue, original design staff may have very little idea about manufacturing. They can give you technicaldata and on how things to look, but how to make thing, they cannot tell. If I give full design data on engine blade and shape, can you magically create machine set to make blade? How to fit all together? How to time heat treatments so parts do not damage each other? What tolerances acceptable? Material, how to be manufactured?
The next person who says 'clone' as if use photocopier will be beaten with sticks.
Exactly... it is reverse engineering that we are talking about here. Plus in the case of the WS-13, it was not even reverse engineering of the RD-93, for if it is, it will be a serious breach of patentship from the Russian.
WS-13 is based on RD-93, but not a direct reverse engineering, it is a modified version. The engine is indegenious.
WS-13 is based on RD-93, but not a direct reverse engineering, it is a modified version. The engine is indegenious.
actually iot coem from China itself, during the Zhuhai airshow, AVI sales brochure shown picture of RD-93 (WS-13), pakistan military website even acknowledge it,different between WS-13 and RD-93 is that WS-13 is offer (slightly) more thrust. nevertheless, IDR claim that russian is developing more powerful version of RD-93 for MIG-35 total thrust around 105~102KN
did the chinese actually tell the world WS-13 is actually RD-93? What the brochure is saying is that the plane might be powered by either WS-13 or RD-93.
Plus... who care what the Russian is developing... that is beside the point, or are you suggesting that the Chinese had a time machine that actually go into the future, see what the Russian had developed, come back and clone it?:roll:
What I am saying is, WS-13 is not an exact copy of RD-93, it is developed based on RD-93, it had more thrust and stuff like that.