Chinese Engine Development

yehe said:

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Above are a couple nice pictures of both the AL31F and the WS10A, show the difference between the two and the WS10a been installed on J11.
The one with dark and longer nozzle are AL31, the lighter and shorter nozzle one are WS10a.

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those photos are good, but WS-10A is not for J-11. they (J-10, J-11) use different gear boxes.
Al-31F and WS-10 for J-11.
AL-31FN and WS-10A for J-10.
now, J-11 still use Al-31, but J-11B already installed WS-10.
now,J-10 still use Al-31FN, but they will be installed WS-10A soon.
we already discussed these and we have many photos in this thead.

a man: that's Axisymmetric Vectoring Engine Nozzles; a type of advanced thrust vectoring. The US tested it in the F-15 VISTA, but it never made production as 2-D thrust vectoring (paddles pointing up and down) offers some of the benefits without the added complexity.

I believe the Su-30MKI runs AVEN 3-D thrust vectoring, however.

Inst said:

a man: that's Axisymmetric Vectoring Engine Nozzles; a type of advanced thrust vectoring. The US tested it in the F-15 VISTA, but it never made production as 2-D thrust vectoring (paddles pointing up and down) offers some of the benefits without the added complexity.

I believe the Su-30MKI runs AVEN 3-D thrust vectoring, however.

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Nope. Su-30MKI has an advanced 2D vectoring. They are asymmetrical and rotated inwards, giving a cork-screw effect. - (Scroll down to the Engines and Fuel System section)

The Su-35BM and T-50 have 3D-TVC.

There is an old video of the Former President Jiang Zemin playing with joystick controlling a 3D-TVC nozzle prototype -

Hyperwarp said:

Nope. Su-30MKI has an advanced 2D vectoring. They are asymmetrical and rotated inwards, giving a cork-screw effect. -

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(Scroll down to the Engines and Fuel System section)

The Su-35BM and T-50 have 3D-TVC.

There is an old video of the Former President Jiang Zemin playing with joystick controlling a 3D-TVC nozzle prototype -

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It must be a very old photo, perhaps 10 years ago ... does it mean ... China has mastered 3D-TVC since early 2000 ????

antiterror13 said:

It must be a very old photo, perhaps 10 years ago ... does it mean ... China has mastered 3D-TVC since early 2000 ????

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What you see in the picture is only the nozzle. It seems it was taken from video were the TVC nozzle responds to the movements of the joystick (I am not sure when it was taken, but well over 5 years ago).

Here are images (From one of the Zhuhai shows) of the nozzle fitted to an engine - ,

Compare with the GE-AVEN (which was fitted on to the F-16 VISTA/MATV) - ,

Well, difficult to say whether they have mastered or not...thats a different question.....

But it shows PRC has been studying these things for sometime. The 1st supposed X-Band Phased Array RADAR for fighters appeared about ten years ago and then mysteriously disappeared.

If you suddenly see an adoption of the certain technologies by the PRC (and an explosion of pictures) you know it didn't happen overnight.

according top81.com.to an article posted 123123, claim that Xhina uses russian supplied phase shifter to built x-band PESA.
could it be possible that China uses russian supplied T/R MMIC to developed there own AESA?in 2006 report that single T/R MMIC cost as much 10,000 yuan,(China announce the fabricating x band T/R MMIC,lenght 25mm ,output 8 watts)but it could be old article,my belief is that Nanjing radar may have brought down to 5000 yuan or below,but this speculation.

challenge said:

according top81.com.to an article posted 123123, claim that Xhina uses russian supplied phase shifter to built x-band PESA.
could it be possible that China uses russian supplied T/R MMIC to developed there own AESA?in 2006 report that single T/R MMIC cost as much 10,000 yuan,(China announce the fabricating x band T/R MMIC,lenght 25mm ,output 8 watts)but it could be old article,my belief is that Nanjing radar may have brought down to 5000 yuan or below,but this speculation.

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China has a more advanced electronics industry than Russia though.

10,000 yuan per might be expensive (about $1500 USD), but the US's first X-band T/R modules cost $1000 USD in the 1980s. The price will inevitably brought down by economics of scale, conveniently by military purchases first (since when was military hardware cheap after all). In that sense, so long as they can make X-band T/R modules, cost is no problem.

challenge said:

according top81.com.to an article posted 123123, claim that Xhina uses russian supplied phase shifter to built x-band PESA
...

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They probably acquired some Zhuk-MFE, Zhuk-MSFE, etc long ago... There were lot of Russian tech floating around after the SU collapsed.

challenge said:

...
could it be possible that China uses russian supplied T/R MMIC to developed there own AESA?
...

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Maybe...but then again....maybe not

challenge said:

...
in 2006 report that single T/R MMIC cost as much 10,000 yuan,(China announce the fabricating x band T/R MMIC,lenght 25mm ,output 8 watts)but it could be old article,my belief is that Nanjing radar may have brought down to 5000 yuan or below,but this speculation

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Well by your own figures thats big a improvements.... 10,000 Yuan = ~ 1,500 USD (750 USD if 5000 CNY)

around very early 2000s (maybe 1999) i heard the value was something like 30,000 USD per X-Band T/R module where as the west had the ability to make for under 1/10 the cost. It wasn't an inability make them but simply being prohibitive in terms of cost. PRC's Research into T/R module modules go quite sometime back. Even before the collapse of the SU. there was a University paper on the PRC T/R module development. Hope someone can dig that up...

If the cost is 750 USD thats massive improvement.

offcial report :
a Fierce Dragon powered by the Taishan turbofan engine has conducted the first taxi trial on 18th March.her maiden flight is coming soon:china:
Taishan(FWS13) is an AVIC-funded engine project.

...
2010年3月18日，中航工业自行立项研制的“泰山”发动机配装枭龙首次滑跑成功！首飞成功指日可待！

maya said:

the PFRT milestone is achieved...

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so...how's WS-15 coming along lately?