Chinese Engine Development

GiantPanda said:

WS-15 is way past that stage. It was already tested on a J-20 last year.

You are right in that it could be a low-bypass fighter engine in a casing.

I'd say a WS-19 or WS-21.

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I wasn’t sure the photo was recent.

Also think WS-21 is already flying on the J-35.

latenlazy said:

I wasn’t sure the photo was recent.

Also think WS-21 is already flying on the J-35.

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Hmmm, I'm assuming that the FC-31 and J-35 prototypes are all still on WS-13E and the WS-21 is what's to come as the interim engine for production.

GiantPanda said:

Hmmm, I'm assuming that the FC-31 and J-35 prototypes are all still on WS-13E and the WS-21 is what's to come as the interim engine for production.

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The nozzles should suggest they’re WS-21. The WS-21 should already have completed development, especially since it’s just an improved version of the WS-13.

latenlazy said:

The nozzles should suggest they’re WS-21. The WS-21 should already have completed development, especially since it’s just an improved version of the WS-13.

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I wondered if WS-21 is merely an improved version of the WS-13 though it might have evolved from the WS-13. The WS-10C is much improved over the WS-10A but was never renamed as a different type.

Deino said:

Last eek we saw the first image of the new engine testbed based on the Y-20A, but as it seems (if this image is a recent one) the good old Il-76SK (?) is still active. But does anyone have an idea what engine this is, it looks wider than the original D-30KPs but not like a WS-20?

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Could it possibly be the engine for a new large transporter in the same class as C-5 Galaxy? I remember someone mentioned a few days ago on the presentation event(the one that announced LRIP for WS-15) that the event also hinted at a new transport plane.

latenlazy said:

The 4 stage counter-rotating HPC turbine cycle China has been working on for their 6th generation fighter moves further in this direction than what 5th Gen designs do, where the primary counter-rotating components are the LPC section and the HPC section. China’s 4 stage counter-rotating HPC has alternating HPC stages. For reference 5th gen engines like the F119, EJ200, and the WS-15 have 5-6 stage HPCs (we don’t actually know how many stages the WS-15 HPC has but all prior information on the engine suggests it’s 6). 4th gen engines meanwhile like the F100, F110, Al-31, and WS-10 have 9-10 stage high pressure compressors.

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So, how is this alternating counterrotating HPC stages mechanically possible without having something ridiculously complex like having an outer shroud that acts as a spool, or having an absurd number of spools within each other?

KampfAlwin said:

Could it possibly be the engine for a new large transporter in the same class as C-5 Galaxy? I remember someone mentioned a few days ago on the presentation event(the one that announced LRIP for WS-15) that the event also hinted at a new transport plane.

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Likely way too early for that.
We would've heard about it if that was the case

RadDisconnect said:

So, how is this alternating counterrotating HPC stages mechanically possible without having something ridiculously complex like having an outer shroud that acts as a spool, or having an absurd number of spools within each other?

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Seems to be an outer shroud. Anyways, you can gauge the evidence for yourself. There are a decent number of papers studying various aspects of this configuration in open source when you search for the relevant terms, and some of the names on some of these papers came up in a story two years ago about a concept verification machine for the next generation engine, which even included a picture of the test device.

latenlazy said:

Chinese Engine Development

Yes, higher T/W ratio due to reduced stage-count is pretty obviously the purpose here. This does sound a bit like a combination of a YF120-like counter-rotating statorless LP turbine with DB 007 style counter-rotating "nested" compressors. That would take a lot of the complexity (e.g. the...

www.sinodefenceforum.com

Seems to be an outer shroud. Anyways, you can gauge the evidence for yourself. There are a decent number of papers studying various aspects of this configuration in open source when you search for the relevant terms, and some of the names on some of these papers came up in a story two years ago about a concept verification machine for the next generation engine, which even included a picture of the test device.

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So it does seem like an outer casing/shroud that holds the stages together. Upon more research, this concept has seen some studies and testing by various countries in the past few decades. While reduced stage count is a benefit, the mechanical load paths are quite a bit more complicated, and the outer shroud that holds the alternate stages would see quite a bit of force that requires heavier structure. Not sure if the tradeoffs are necessarily worth it. Is there any more evidence that this is the direction that the Chinese next generation engine is going? There are plenty of concepts, not all of which are used or applicable at a larger scale.

KampfAlwin said:

Could it possibly be the engine for a new large transporter in the same class as C-5 Galaxy? I remember someone mentioned a few days ago on the presentation event(the one that announced LRIP for WS-15) that the event also hinted at a new transport plane.

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Could be H-20 engine ? Even if it's ws-10/ws-15 derivative they need to test it... I would see a high bypass for a transporter.