Chinese Engine Development

minusone said:

Many were surprised by the civillian conversion of Ws-20 to AEF-1300 given CJ1000a development.

But then it makes sense, CJ1000a will keep the west suppliers sort of happy and give green-light to the certification of C919 powered by domestic chinese turbofan.

And then AEF-1300 is there in case sh*t went wrong on epic scale.

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The development of AEF-1300 as a lower risk alternative alongside a fully domestic CJ-1000A makes sense.

The existence of AEF-1300 doesn't require CJ-1000A to have foreign involvement, and at this stage it would be very odd if CJ-1000A had foreign suppliers and I haven't seen anything credible suggesting that to be the case in recent years.

minusone said:

Many were surprised by the civillian conversion of Ws-20 to AEF-1300 given CJ1000a development.

But then it makes sense, CJ1000a will keep the west suppliers sort of happy and give green-light to the certification of C919 powered by domestic chinese turbofan.

And then AEF-1300 is there in case sh*t went wrong on epic scale.

Click to expand...

If shit goes wrong the CJ-1000 will go immediately to domestic substitution (if it hasn't already). As I've laid out before with the substitution process for the C919's components in general this isn't as burdensome as people might think once the product actually receives its certification.

I think the AEF1300 was probably an easy iterative upgrade for the WS-20 and is probably set to be an upgrade option for the Y-20. It also might be kept as an option for future military planes that might require a high bypass engine in that thrust class (like a military version of the C919 as I mentioned before).

Blitzo said:

The development of AEF-1300 as a lower risk alternative alongside a fully domestic CJ-1000A makes sense.

The existence of AEF-1300 doesn't require CJ-1000A to have foreign involvement, and at this stage it would be very odd if CJ-1000A had foreign suppliers and I haven't seen anything credible suggesting that to be the case in recent years.

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Translation:Wrong example, CAE turbofan has many international suppliers

minusone said:

View attachment 109730
Translation:Wrong example, CAE turbofan has many international suppliers

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Someone commented that it was a rumor.

Red tsunami said:

Someone commented that it was a rumor.

View attachment 109733
View attachment 109731

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MTU Avio and CFM were all part of early discussions for the project back around maybe 2013. The project disappeared off the grid for a few years and when it re-emerged around 2017-18 there was no more mention of foreign participants that I can recall.

minusone said:

View attachment 109730
Translation:Wrong example, CAE turbofan has many international suppliers

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Well I would be surprised if that was still the case, and even in the subsequent comments they seem unsure if that is currently the case as Red tsunami subsequently posted.

More importantly, your theory still doesn't make much sense -- if they designed CJ-1000A from the outset to be dependent on critical foreign subcomponents and was designed deliberately to enable foreign suppliers to maintain market sure in the Chinese market (why?), then there is no reason why China wouldn't simply continue using LEAP for C919 instead.

The whole point of developing CJ-1000A was to have a fully domestic, somewhat competitive powerplant for C919 that can replace LEAP and thus be free from critical foreign subsuppliers. There is absolutely no reason at all to develop CJ-1000A if they wanted to keep foreign suppliers "happy" -- they would be better off just not developing CJ-1000A at all.

ZeEa5KPul said:

Are they trying to shoot it down with small arms?

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Maybe someone was setting off firecrackers

minusone said:

This press was not released by 商飞 so it could be Ws-20 or AEF1300 rather than CJ1000a???

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It is now certain that the "Mystery Engine" does not have the serrated shell of AEF1300, and has the typical features of CJ-1000A at Zhuhai Airshow (blue gray white paint and that small extension). So it's more likely to be CJ-1000A than AEF1300.

Can anyone read the number on this Y-20A testbed?

latenlazy said:

I can see AEF-1300 being used for a military use C919 design if the CJ-1000 isn't sanction proofed or if there's no desire to siphon some production capacity for non-commercial use.

That said, if there was any critical foreign component in the CJ-1000 before it's very unlikely there will be now.

EDIT: Another reason for using AEF-1300 for a military use C919 over CJ-1000 would be to simplify engine sustainment logistics.

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Which development stage is the AEF-1300 in, as of now? How long until AEF-1300 is ready for service as a standby option in case CJ-1000A didn't manage to finish in time?

latenlazy said:

The CJ-1000 is the WS-20’s peer, not the CJ-2000.

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If the West cuts off China's access to LEAP-1C, while CJ-1000 remains 2-3 years away (God knows that kind of problems would delay it further) you talking about halting C919 production line until CJ-1000 ready. I remember that happened to J-11B, but it last only less than a year before issues with the early WS-10s were resolved. But 2-3 years is a lot. There has to be back-up option, so WS-20 could be it until C919 is ready (also, I think WS-20 is has a slightly higher thrust than LEAP-1C and CJ-1000, but it is just a lot more fuel guzzling). Maybe a monkey version of C919 should be the Plan B. A C919 platform using WS-20 could also be redeveloped into next generation submarine hunter and AWACS.

As for C929 and CJ-2000, folks would have to wait, but a re-designed C929 with four WS-20 engines modeled after A340-300 and Il-96 could be the stop-gap option (most importantly, Xi's PLAAF One and PLAAF aerial command aircraft) before CJ-2000 were to be finally certified. It is the difference between A340 and A330 with the latter being more competitive in the civilian market.