Chinese Engine Development

I visited PLA Aviation Museum a few weeks ago. There was a sign board before the FWS10 engine. It said plainly :"FWS10 engines are advanced indigenous turbofan engines being used on homemade J-11s. The engines can also be used on J-10s by variation. The engine has already been in mass production and has become the ideal engine for our third generation fighters."

The nozzle of the FWS10 is the same with the WS-10A's in Zhuhai aviation shows, but the position of accessories is different with WS-10A. The position of the accessories of FWS10 is similar with AL-31's and the position of accessories of WS-10A is imilar with AL-31FN's.

Obviously, FWS10 is used on J-11 and WS-10A may be the the variation used on J-10, since the position of its accessories is similar with AL-31FN, which has been known as the engine of J-10.

The difference appearance of the nozzles of the FWS10 and the WS-10A in Zhuhai is just because the nozzle of FWS10 is at expanding position and the WS-10A is at constricted position.

tphuang said:

They are importing AL-31FN for J-10s and producing FWS-10 for J-11Bs. It's that simple. Why do people still argue on this?

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Hi Tphuang,

Someone may have already asked it. Sorry if I have missed it. Why importing AL-31FN specificially for J-10s? The FWS-10 cannot fit the original J10 frame? or is it because it cannot be mass-produced enough to fit both versions?

aquauant said:

Hi Tphuang,

Someone may have already asked it. Sorry if I have missed it. Why importing AL-31FN specificially for J-10s? The FWS-10 cannot fit the original J10 frame? or is it because it cannot be mass-produced enough to fit both versions?

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They (J-10, J-11) use different gear boxes.

aquauant said:

Hi Tphuang,

Someone may have already asked it. Sorry if I have missed it. Why importing AL-31FN specificially for J-10s? The FWS-10 cannot fit the original J10 frame? or is it because it cannot be mass-produced enough to fit both versions?

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well, they don't consider Taihang to be mature enough to equip all of the J-10s with them yet. Although, I personally think some of them are already using FWS-10A. Still waiting to see the first photo though. And I think FWS-10A is also supposed to have slightly higher thrust and different gear box location than FWS-10, which is used for J-11B. And at the moment, AL-31FN is working pretty well for J-10, so they will keep on using that until Taihang can exceed its performance imo.

aquauant said:

Hi Tphuang,

Someone may have already asked it. Sorry if I have missed it. Why importing AL-31FN specificially for J-10s? The FWS-10 cannot fit the original J10 frame? or is it because it cannot be mass-produced enough to fit both versions?

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Before early 1990s, WS-10 was originally assigned as the candidate of J-10's engine. There is an article I found in some Chinese websites shows how WS-10 was re-assigned as the engine of J-11 and missed J-10's maiden flight.

1991年底，已过知天命之年的张恩和出任“太行”发动机总设计师，研制我国新一代大推力涡扇发动机的重任落在他的肩上。1987年至1993年，在原国防科工委和空军的大力支持下，经过六年多的艰苦奋斗，一航动力所克服了基础薄弱、条件不足等种种困难，完成了“太行”验证机阶段的研制工作，并以配装我国一新型飞机的技术状态转入原型机研制。然而，在当时技术情况下要用“太行”发动机配装新型飞机试飞有很大风险，发动机装飞机试飞前，除必须进行大量地面试车考核外，还需要经过飞行台试验才行。当时，国内仅有的飞行台寿命已经到期，而且飞行包线也太小。20世纪90年代初期，通过进一步引进合作，新型飞机又有了国外成熟发动机配装试飞。刚接任“太行”发动机总设计师的张恩和副所长在琢磨这个问题：“太行”发动机如何找到合适的飞行平台进行领先试飞？
...........

20世纪90年代初，我国从国外引进了一批飞机直接装备部队，为降低“太行”发动机配装飞机的研制风险，张恩和适时地提出了“太行”发动机以国外飞机为平台的领先试飞方案，并组织了所内的技术力量进行了六个方面的可行性论证。1993年，一航动力所向当时的中国航空工业总公司报告，申请提供一架引进的飞机作为飞行平台对“太行”发动机进行领先试飞。周密的论证和详细的汇报使得中央军委等上级领导对张恩和的建议有了更大的信心。

　　1995年6月7日，刚刚落成的一航动力所技术协调中心的二楼多功能厅内，总参、国防科工委、空军、海军等上级领导，在饶有兴致地听取了张恩和总师的汇报后，时任副总参谋长的曹刚川传达了中央军委的重要决定："太行’发动机一是配新型歼击机，二是作某型飞机的后继动力。"

........

1998年5月，总装备部批复：同意将“太行”发动机首装机种由歼某飞机调整为某型飞机，并在该机上完成发动机设计定型。

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This is the translation:

In 1991, Zhang Enhe was assigned as the chief engineer of Taihang turbofan engine. During 1987 to 1993, after 6 years research and development, the 606 institute had completed demonstration-phased engine and began to develope and design the prototype engine for the new plane (J-10). However, it was too risky to fly the new plane (J-10) with the new engine (WS-10) considering the technical capability(of Chinese aviation industry) at that time. Before fixing and flying with a plane, a new engine must pass its flight test bed test. But at the time the only high-altitude test bed (which was a H-5) in China had reached its end of service life and its flight envelope is too narrow. Meanwhile the new plane (J-10) had found a foreign-made mature engine (AL-31FN) for its test flight instead. As the chief engineer of the engine, Zhang began to consider how to find a suitable platform to perform the flight test of the engine before the plane was available.

.....

In early 1990s, China purchased some planes (Su-27) from a foreign country for PLAAF. For avoiding the risk of flying a new plane with a new engine, Zhang proposed using a foreing-made plane (Su-27) as the platform to test his new engine. In 1993, Zhang reported Chinese Aviation Ministry demanding a Su-27 to test his new engine.

June 7th, 1995, the leaders of PLAAF, Navy, the General Armament Department and the Defence Industry Committee were debriefed by Zhang with great interest. After the debrife, Cao Gangchuan, the vice-chief of the general staff of PLA, announced the decision of the Central Military Commission:"Taihang engine is assigned as the main engine of new plane(J-10) and the candidate engine of Su-27"

......

In May, 1998, the General Armaments Department replied (another Zhang's report):"(proposal) has been approved to change the the plane from J-10 to Su-27 for the maiden flight and certification flights of Taihang."


Since J-10 was originally assigned to be powered by WS-10, an AL-31 can not be directly fitted into J-10's fuselage. In fact Russian deveolpe a variant of AL-31 assigned as AL-31FN instead. So people can suppose that China had to promise Russian to purchase a certain number of AL-31FN to compensate the spending of developing a variant of AL-31. And people could not suppose China would buy all these promised engines once and for all then put them into a warehouse rusting. The purchase may last several years according to the PLA's schedule of the purchase of J-10.

Since WS-10/WS-10A is not the copy of AL-31/AL-31FN, I don't think it can be directly used on the Su-27s/J-11s/J-10s which have already fixed with AL-31s/AL-31FNs. Even if it could fit, I don't think PLA would remove all already mounted AL-31s off its Su-27/J-11 fleet instead of WS-10s just for national pride. So it needs time to see some photos of newly made J-11s or J-10s with WS-10s.

Lion said:

Ws-10a is Taihang

FWS-10 is the orginal domestic engine IMHO...

I believe China aviation watcher have been misled into thinking domestic engine has not install on J-10 and J-11 since FWS-10 looks very similiar to Al-31.

All the while the so call Al-31F engine we seen on J-10 from pictures maybe in fact FWS-10.

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Nothing's more terrible than misleading
All the FWS-10 series belong to Taihang.Till now ,the operational J-10s are using AL-31FN engines!

Lion said:

Ws-10a is Taihang

FWS-10 is the orginal domestic engine IMHO....

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Actually ,the original version of FWS-10 series is 10A(130kN thrust class, featuring its gearbox and most accessories mounted beneath.),designed to power J-10.
in 1987,the "No.10 engine project" was offcially launched ,it included 10A and some derivatives.

:nono:


I guess the J-11 is the testbed for both the WS-10A & B...

(图文)中国航空太行 [二代] 问世：外媒称中国战机翅膀变硬
鼎盛军事网 2010-02-03 21:22:58

中国航空报报道：当配装国产发动机的重点型号飞机成功首飞，标志着中国一航“航空报国、自主创新”又一丰硕成果诞生。该型发动机通过了设计定型审查。配装该发动机的重点型号飞机顺利完成定型审查。一航沈阳所与一航动力所携手并肩、共谱蓝天理想，解决了一个个重大技术难题，攻克了一道道技术难关。

从以上官方语言我们可以读懂的是：国产WS-10发动机（即太行发动机）已装备歼-11B飞机，并于已完成定型审查。但至今没有WS-10装备国产歼 -10的消息，而据《简氏防务周刊》报道，中国与俄罗斯签署了一项关于购买250台AL-31FN发动机的合同，总价值9亿美元。这批发动机将用来装备歼 -10战斗机，根据合同，首批100台发动机将于2005~2007年交付，第二批150台将于2008~2010年交付（据介绍，AL-31FN发动机最大推力为125.5千牛，装有失量控制喷嘴和改良的控制系统）。

从上述两则消息我们可以得出这样一个判断：国产WS-10发动机已开始装备歼-11B飞机，而国产歼-10至今仍装备俄罗斯AL-31FN发动机。为什么会出现WS-10装备歼-11B，但歼-10却依然使用俄罗斯的AL-31FN的情况。这只能说明一个问题：即WS-10的可靠性依然低于 AL-31，歼-10是单发机，对此要求较高，所以只能选择可靠性更高的AL-31F；而歼-11B是双发机，对发动机的可靠性要求低于歼-10，所以可以装备WS-10。

太行 [二代]

日前《中国航空报》刊载了一篇报道：《一航动力所重点型号研制工作成果斐然》。文中透露：“太行”发动机在批产过程中，解决了一系列技术问题，交付数量大大提高，基本上实现了从科研向批产的过渡，实现了技术成果向装备的转化。“太行”系列发展型完成了计划任务的方案设计、技术攻关和试验验证工作，为配装飞机打下坚实基础。这标志着太行二代的问世，曾有外媒对这一消息进行评价：Chinese taihang II 问世 战机翅膀变硬。

这篇官方报道向我们透露出了许多有价值的信息，澄清了此前的一些猜测和争论：一是“太行”发动机已经批产且交付数量大大提高，二是“太行”发动机存在的一系列技术问题已获解决，三是“太行”发动机已经走上系列化发展轨道且离配装飞机为期不远……

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thanks guys.

Also, it may be constractual obligation that PLAAF is still receiving russian engines this year, I guess, as said in the above post.

I reckon Chinese engine development has finally overcome this big technological barrier, at least in fighter jet engine area.

maya said:

Actually ,the original version of FWS-10 series is 10A(130kN thrust class, featuring its gearbox and most accessories mounted beneath.),designed to power J-10.
in 1987,the "No.10 engine project" was offcially launched ,it included 10A and some derivatives.
[qimg]http://image.club.china.com/twhb/1013/2010/1/24/mid/1264301087550.jpg[/qimg]

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Thanks für posting ... can anyone PLEASE give an exact translation !!!

Is this a confirmation that the WS-10A is based on the CFM-56 ???

Deino