Chinese Engine Development

Engineer

Engineer

Major
MiG-29 said:
Well look my points were laid down based upon the economic realities of aircraft design, and upon what i know about Latin american aerospace and Chinese and Russian aerospace.

I have told you jet engine design is not cheap, it requieres a market, safety and be on on the forefront to be economically effective.

Globalization has brought that because aircraft design is becoming more and more expensive.

I don`t take on them because as i told you, their points are based upon the idea, China should go alone, it is isolated and as a patriotic duty should be 100% Chinese and for the pride of the nation no cooperation since cooperation is a disgrace and all nations steal so steal is good so worries about tech transfers by western companies are not relevant since that is what they did in the past.



Plus in their points they do not see the economic realities.


I do no see that, i can see a china perfectly integrated at least with Russia and more economic sense make engines on a joint venture.


In my past i also though cooperation with the US was not good for Mexico, but after i saw in mexico some components of GExn jet engines are designed i changed my mind.

So the only thing you want is to argue and argue with people that think completly different to me and won`t change their point of view.

Economic sense makes nation cooperate, that is the reason Germany`s MTU makes EJ-200 with Avio, Senner and RR, is not that MTU can not make a jet engine, is laughable that report that says 5 countries in the world can only make jet engines, in fact more countries can do them, but on the terms of market ad economic efficiency is better going in joint ventures specially if a nation wants the top technology and the best engine in the market.
Can China make and design a jet engine yes they can but as reliable as they need in 2013, no i do not think so, however Germany by cooperating gets more knowledge and it is easier to make the engine.

Thatis the reason ITP designs in Mexico, because mexicans also have different ideas too that add new ideas and solutions.

Is also laughable to think cooperation makes a nation less or China can not make joint ventures even with the US or Europe, however to happen that you need Changes in policy and economic pressures and China has them.
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Yet despite your so call economic realities, Russia goes alone in developing the 117 engine instead of jointly developing such engine with someone else. That's because countries such as the US would not share its leading-edge engine technologies with Russia, and Russia too would not share its leading engine technologies with countries like US. It is all politics, and your so call realities don't actually have basis in reality. China's situation isn't much different.

Money can only buy you out-dated technologies. The only way to get to the top and become a leader is to do it yourself. This is why China is making a lot of progress in all areas, from individual components such as engines to integrated systems such as AWACs. A country that shares your naivety is India, which made very little progress in the domestic sector.
 
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dingyibvs

Senior Member
MiG-29 said:
I am selective for 2 reasons.

First many of the fellow forum members have already fixed views, they are not going to change their opinion, so what ever i say they will say no to me, if i say white they say black.
So this only will make the threat boring for other people.

Th other reason some people are not attacking my arguments but my person, since i m not Chinese it happens i have a different view, some people get offended if i post for example things in the media which do not conform to their views, so they start attacking me personally.

So no need to make the thread that long since them are there just to attack me and not to have a conversation.

So my silence me means i agree to disagree.

I answer to the fellow forum members to whom first are more open, to whom we can have conversation even if we disagree and those who attack my arguments politely without personal attacks.

In my opinion, China will control more IPR more issues because China as any nation needs investment, so like Mexico they need investment in aerospace.

I put my country as a example because i know why Mexico is doing that.


Chinese aerospace planers also are watching Mexico sucess in getting investment an access to some jet engine technology know how, so they will do a different policy to harmonize the interests of the foreign jet engine companies who want to invest in China.

Russia, India and Brazil will do similar strategies as well adapting their needs to harmonize them too why because they need investment in aerospace.

Globalization works like that.

regards
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Right, because you've convinced Engineer of soooo many points of yours :D
 
K

kyanges

Junior Member
MiG-29 said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dcozX4AVtDc

Interesting and funny how you want to claim only you should be allowed to post here, this video shows some western and Chinese view about the realities of engine design in China but i guess you want to only post here, exclude me since my view is from a non chinese person so you claim my opinions do not belong here.

probably if i post things like this you would like me to post
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No.


I'll repeat:

kyanges said:
Yes, Chinese aerospace planners got the idea to cooperate from Mexico.


Can a mod move the past few pages of this thread to somewhere else?
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Yes, pages. (Highlighted so MiG-29 doesn't miss it this time.) That means everyone's posts, including mine.

Or at the very least, lock it so people can cool off?


dingyibvs said:
This is why I stopped frequenting this site except when big news come along like the past few days with the module. Every time I want to read up on some conversation, I have to dig through a bunch of pointless drivel stirred up by mig29. Other posters, even regulars, taking his bait doesn't help either.
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Sent you a PM regarding this post.
 
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AssassinsMace

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General
I love how Mig thinks of himself as so open-minded. Has he ever said anything other than China is inferior? The difference between everyone else that Mig complains about and himself is he gets upset when people don't automatically follow lock step with his point of view. No one can have a thought that doesn't follow his. I love how a fictional domestic Mexican engine that only exists in fantasyland can be used in reality to say Mexico can make a better engine than China. And people have called me absurd or even a liar when I mention about a person I know who told me Japan's invasion of China during WWII was justified because of a fictional invasion of Japan by China in the past that only occurred in his imagination. Some people do actually think like that.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
kyanges said:
No.


I'll repeat:



Yes, pages. (Highlighted so MiG-29 doesn't miss it this time.) That means everyone's posts, including mine.

Or at the very least, lock it so people can cool off?
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So tell me do you have such authority to decide what has to be move to where?


I have only spoken of jet engine design, the thread`s name is Chinese engine development.


In fact i have only spoken what in my way of thinking are some flaws in the chinese aproach for getting engine tech transfers.


only that.
 
MiG-29

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
AssassinsMace said:
I love how Mig thinks of himself as so open-minded. Has he ever said anything other than China is inferior? The difference between everyone else that Mig complains about and himself is he gets upset when people don't automatically follow lock step with his point of view. No one can have a thought that doesn't follow his. I love how a fictional domestic Mexican engine that only exists in fantasyland can be used in reality to say Mexico can make a better engine than China. And people have called me absurd or even a liar when I mention about a person I know who told me Japan's invasion of China during WWII was justified because of a fictional invasion of Japan by China in the past that only occurred in his imagination. Some people do actually think like that.
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Quote me saying Mexico is better, i have never said that, the only thing i said, is China has some flaws in the way to get tech transfers.

Probably you do not know, but China like Mexico are top reciepients of aerospace related investment.

I will ask you, do you think for China recieve investment is not important?

Do you think in China they do not want aerospace related investment?

You just have a fixed view sayng to you China can not get jet engine transfers.

They can, they have allies like Russia, and potential partners like the US wanting to do partnerships with China, in fact i do not think in future years GE, P&W or RR will not do partnerships China in jet engine design.



Because simply aircraf design is getting more and more expensive so it means less and less models will fly.
If you read why embraer did not make a bigger aircraft in the class of C919 or MS-21 or MRJ o CS100, is smply because the market they say is not so big, so some losers will come between those programs, so Brazil decided to just re-engine the E-190 family

So the aerospace related chain supply business will boom and of course many nations will follow Mexico or China in that regard.


If you want investment and a share of the market, every nation will be forced to cooperate, they already do it, simple look at B-787 or A-350 or Embraer aircraft.

And even if you do not like it J-10, J-11 or J-31 all these aircraft have parts developed in different parts too
 
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K

kyanges

Junior Member
AssassinsMace said:
I love how Mig thinks of himself as so open-minded. Has he ever said anything other than China is inferior? The difference between everyone else that Mig complains about and himself is he gets upset when people don't automatically follow lock step with his point of view. No one can have a thought that doesn't follow his. I love how a fictional domestic Mexican engine that only exists in fantasyland can be used in reality to say Mexico can make a better engine than China. And people have called me absurd or even a liar when I mention about a person I know who told me Japan's invasion of China during WWII was justified because of a fictional invasion of Japan by China in the past that only occurred in his imagination. Some people do actually think like that.
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He's said things about investment. That's not a bad topic to cover. The problem is, as usual, Mig-29 hasn't responded to some good counterpoints, meaning the discussion goes in circles.

And as usual, as evidenced in his responses to my posts, he replies with things only barely related to what he's responding to. I just asked if a mod could move the past few pages somewhere else or temporarily lock the thread. In response he accuses me of racism, and then goes on to ask if I have the "authority" to decide, lol.

I guess I'll just go PM a mod directly.
 
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L

latenlazy

Brigadier
MiG-29 said:
So tell me do you have such authority to decide what has to be move to where?


I have only spoken of jet engine design, the thread`s name is Chinese engine development.


In fact i have only spoken what in my way of thinking are some flaws in the chinese aproach for getting engine tech transfers.


only that.
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You've spoken about jet engines, but not about Chinese engines :D
 
Engineer

Engineer

Major
AssassinsMace said:
I love how Mig thinks of himself as so open-minded. Has he ever said anything other than China is inferior? The difference between everyone else that Mig complains about and himself is he gets upset when people don't automatically follow lock step with his point of view. No one can have a thought that doesn't follow his. I love how a fictional domestic Mexican engine that only exists in fantasyland can be used in reality to say Mexico can make a better engine than China. And people have called me absurd or even a liar when I mention about a person I know who told me Japan's invasion of China during WWII was justified because of a fictional invasion of Japan by China in the past that only occurred in his imagination. Some people do actually think like that.
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That seems to be the trait of China bashers. They like to assume a morally superior position, proclaiming how they are for democracy and the rights of others. Then, as soon as someone disagree with them, these people get upset and show their true color.
 
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