Chinese Engine Development

Hendrik_2000 said:

Next time you fly in Boeing or Airbus plane I bet you be flying a plane with Chinese made wing or stabilizer
Nothing but BS China has been supplier to Boeing and Airbus

Click to expand...

I guess you are simply trying to distract the real point

In Mexico we also build fuselages from Bombardier Learjet 85s to AH-64 Helicopters

You can see pictures and reports just check the links






In Mexico we have Eurocopter, Bell textron, MD helicopter making fuselages only to mention a few.


But here we are talking about jet engine design.

In Mexico like in China we have different levels of work, the guys who build the fuselages most of the time
are just technicians, some are very qualified, buy they are not designing


Honeywell is not afraid in Mexico they will do any harm to their technology so they trust us.




Also on the border, Honeywell Chihuahua Manufacturing Operations is a manufacturing center that produces mechanical engine components. These facilities in Chihuahua have been recognized as a Center of Excellence in advanced precision mechanics for commercial and military aircraft engines.



Part of that design effort and intellectual
capacity is located in North Mexico, in
facilities that develop aerospace projects for
commercial airlines and the military.



China has isolated them self because they have made a big mistake and is do not have gain theconfidence of some even close allies like Russia to get tech transfers.

Russia has a condition 117 and Al-31s do not be used to further Chinese engine technology, in few words do not copy their tech without authorization.


The US has enough trust in Mexico as an ally to do some research there.

Why? simple we allow the foreign companies to rule themselves, they are free in Mexico, no attachmets to share tech or have to work with Mexican regulations that hinder their freedom.

Sukhoi and Embraer have not very good experiences in China, J-15 or the hindrances to ERJ-145 are well documented.


China has isolated themselves, as such they struggle more getting tech transfers

MiG-29 said:

To get tech transfers you need to pay a lot of money an you always get old technology.
.

Click to expand...

Nothing wrong with that. China's 094 sub and Liaoning carrier are considered old tech compared to western standard. Did that stop China from having them??? To have is a lot more important than have-nots and People DO Not understand that, always wishing for zero-sum game;either to have the latest or Nothing at all. That's just WRONG.

Also, You can negotiate on old tech, you don't necessary have to pay a lot of money.

Chinese Model for all its negativity, and despite India's reputation as trusted partner with Russia, I will say this, CHina is a lot more closer to fulfilling its role of having independent tech across all areas than India overall. CHina's model is clear superior over India's.I think pretty much everyone would agree with that. And on top of India has a lot more access to different foreign technologies and THAT DO Not make them anymore self Sufficient. There's no argument to that, my friend. It's a FACT.

Chinese 095 and 096 subs are self improvement over than self developed old tech, yeah maybe they are Not equivalent to Western latest. So what?! They are good enough for China and they are a force to be reckon with. Samething with China's Carrier program.

You don't need international cooperation in those projects. Samething with China's domestic cargo plane and passenger plane,

The only thing is regrettable is for Xian, having the experiences of producing WS8 and WS9 didn't have self improvement and come up with more advanced version. It been tweaking with H-6 planes a lot and with a lot of different models but
didn't come up with improvement upon WS8 and WS9.. That's what's disturbing. Usually CHina has history of making incremental improvement over existing product.

If Xian can make WS9B,WS9C, 9D...etc incremental improvement, the JH7A fighter would see steady improvement but we didn't see that. That's a letdown. Instead i think Xian spending too much on modifying the body and electronics for H6K, which PLA didn't really wanted initially because its engines are foreign and therefore Xian has to self -funded on that one.

I think China should give funding to Xian and tell them to come with WS9 improvement with 25%-30% more thrust. I think that more valuable than making JH7B, another Chinese Stealth plane with no domestic engines. There are TOO MANY of those Stealth looking planes already in China!

That's one negative aspect Chinese Culture, RISK Aversion, taking easy way, preferring to do things they feel that better chances of succeeding. To them modifying or creating a Plane's structure and shape is a lot more easy than making changes and design to engine which has more element of unknown. Taking Easy way out and RiSK Aversion have been Big, Big factors in hampering China's advancement.

Finally, WS13 at Guizhou, I think that's ridiculous. that program moves slower than a turtle. They should close it down and transfer WS13 program to CAC, Chengdu. Guizhou do not have enough talent base and weight to execute that program.

Chengdu takes pride in being the forefront in development of military aviation in China, so give that WS13 program to them and see how it go!

MiG-29 said:

I guess you are simply trying to distract the real point

In Mexico we also build fuselages from Bombardier Learjet 85s to AH-64 Helicopters

You can see pictures and reports just check the links

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

In Mexico we have Eurocopter, Bell textron, MD helicopter making fuselages only to mention a few.


But here we are talking about jet engine design.

In Mexico like in China we have different levels of work, the guys who build the fuselages most of the time
are just technicians, some are very qualified, buy they are not designing


Honeywell is not afraid in Mexico they will do any harm to their technology so they trust us.




Also on the border, Honeywell Chihuahua Manufacturing Operations is a manufacturing center that produces mechanical engine components. These facilities in Chihuahua have been recognized as a Center of Excellence in advanced precision mechanics for commercial and military aircraft engines.



Part of that design effort and intellectual
capacity is located in North Mexico, in
facilities that develop aerospace projects for
commercial airlines and the military.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China has isolated them self because they have made a big mistake and is do not have gain theconfidence of some even close allies like Russia to get tech transfers.

Russia has a condition 117 and Al-31s do not be used to further Chinese engine technology, in few words do not copy their tech without authorization.


The US has enough trust in Mexico as an ally to do some research there.

Why? simple we allow the foreign companies to rule themselves, they are free in Mexico, no attachmets to share tech or have to work with Mexican regulations that hinder their freedom.

Sukhoi and Embraer have not very good experiences in China, J-15 or the hindrances to ERJ-145 are well documented.


China has isolated themselves, as such they struggle more getting tech transfers

Click to expand...

What a load of spin. China isolated itself? Oh you mean because China isn't as dependent as Mexico on another power? What you talk about is the difference between signing your soul away to the devil or not. Tech transfers? Mexico still needs tech transfer to do it? Can Mexico do it on its own without tech transfer? Apparently not since you place so much emphasis on how Mexico is trusted enough with tech transfer. If you think Mexico can start making engines because it has tech transfers, that's called stealing. Making stuff for someone else is a whole different animal than making it for yourself. Mexico is no where being independent and if it ever took that road you will see the US deny your precious tech transfer. Mexico has one of the highest per capita income outside the West and yet no where near the level of development of other countries around the world that had reached that level. There's a reason why and that reason is why Mexico isn't going to be as dynamic as you think.

AssassinsMace said:

What a load of spin. China isolated itself? Oh you mean because China isn't as dependent as Mexico on another power? What you talk about is the difference between signing your soul away to the devil or not. Tech transfers? Mexico still needs tech transfer to do it? Can Mexico do it on its own without tech transfer? Apparently not since you place so much emphasis on how Mexico is trusted enough with tech transfer. If you think Mexico can start making engines because it has tech transfers, that's called stealing. Making stuff for someone else is a whole different animal than making it for yourself. Mexico is no where being independent and if it ever took that road you will see the US deny your precious tech transfer. Mexico has one of the highest per capita income outside the West and yet no where near the level of development of other countries around the world that had reached that level. There's a reason why and that reason is why Mexico isn't going to be as dynamic as you think.

Click to expand...

Mexico 's 99% of its wealth is concentrating on a few. They have NO MiddleClass. Corrupted as Hell, And A lot of things are running by DrugLords, they buy up policeman, politicians, and military.
Mexico is not going to do anything independent anytime soon.

MiG-29's example of India and Mexico are aweful, those two cannot be compared to China in any shape or form.

China's current issue is Not Isolation, rather it's itself, Risk Aversion and taking easy way out are biggest problem with China engine development right now.

MiG-29 said:

China has isolated themselves, as such they struggle more getting tech transfers

Click to expand...

The Europeans don't trust Russia, and Putin has been doing a wonderful job isolating Moscow from the US/NATO. And in spite of that, the French sold Mistrals to Russia. Is this because the French love and trust the Russians, or is it because money talks and bullshit walks?

Strategic trust between nations is a luxury most countries can't afford. What would happen if the US pulled out of Europe? Most nations will rearm to hedge against not only Russia, but The Fatherland too.

TyroneG said:

Mexico 's 99% of its wealth is concentrating on a few. They have NO MiddleClass. Corrupted as Hell, And A lot of things are running by DrugLords, they buy up policeman, politicians, and military.
Mexico is not going to do anything independent anytime soon.

MiG-29's example of India and Mexico are aweful, those two cannot be compared to China in any shape or form.

Click to expand...

That's what I'm talking about. Mexico can have the richest person in the world but the state Mexico is in it just says all the money is in possession of the few which means extreme levels of high corruption despite all the supposed advantages said of Mexico. So per capita figures are greatly misleading. Which goes to say why Mexico isn't going to be dynamic as one wants to believe.

MiG-29 said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

China has isolated themselves, as such they struggle more getting tech transfers

Click to expand...

Honeywell is an impressive company. IIRC, they invented the ring laser gyro. But nevertheless, China is making their own ring laser gyros . China can buy its way out of "isolation" with its $ 1 trillion foreign exchange reserve.

AssassinsMace said:

That's what I'm talking about. Mexico can have the richest person in the world but the state Mexico is in it just says all the money is in possession of the few which means extreme levels of high corruption despite all the supposed advantages said of Mexico. So per capita figures are greatly misleading. Which goes to say why Mexico isn't going to be dynamic as one wants to believe.

Click to expand...

Okay, this is seirously off topic. Please get off this and back to Engines.