Chinese Economics Thread

Sinnavuuty

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Lou Jiwei on Key Challenges in China's Next Fiscal and Tax System Reform​

Former Minister of Finance, Lou Jiwei, highlights “five key issues that this new round of fiscal-tax system reform must address”:

1. Increase the share of tax revenues in GDP

2. Increase tax revenues by increasing the VAT rate and implementing a “comprehensive personal income tax system”

3. Establish effective local taxes, for example allocating portions of consumption tax to local governments, collecting property taxes.

4. Balance central-local fiscal relations.

5. Adjust fiscal policy constraints, for example, increasing the fiscal deficit limit by more than 3%.

He is the same person who called for an end to the division between urban and rural areas and the current household registration system.
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Lou Jiwei says structural reforms are now imperative​

 

Index

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This shows the government should be printing way more money, for restoring the confidence of the consumers. But the big guy still has not been able to grasp this concept.
Should be focused on product development.

Consumers are always gonna come back later. Post covid cycle means spending on vacation and services. Next cycle will be back to cars, gadgets so on.

For the next 3-5 years, we're gonna want to be ready with the most competitive cars, graphic cards, electronic components, in order to not miss out on potential market share and experience for the companies.
 

Staedler

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But Poland massively failed its fundamental goals: birth rate. Poland population still decreased by 1 mil last year. If gov wants to stimulate spending, they will just need to provide some vouchers. If they want to increase or at least keep the birth rate from falling, they need more policies other than money.

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1721049651643.png
From here:
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It certainly looks like it had some effect. But counteracting the trend means increasing amounts of spending, not just staying at the low base.

Here also, they say its because religious people are not much influenced by monetary policies:
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1721049776254.png

We have to keep in mind when discounting existing policies that every country is slightly different but also that no country is doing anywhere near enough. So the micro-policies that are being discussed and enacted are frequently subsumed by the much larger general trend. You really need to pick at the data in detail to remove the effect of the larger trend to see if there is any effect.
 

gadgetcool5

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China GDP Growth in Second Quarter 2024 Came In At 4.7%

That brings growth in the first half of the year down to 5%. Exports were up 8.6%, factory output grew 5.3%, and high-tech manufacturing grew 8.8%. Urban real disposable income was up 4.6% and rural real dispoable income was up 6.8% in nominal terms in the first half of the year.

However, retail sales grew only 3.7% and real estate investment was down 10.1%. Youth unemployment was still high at over 14%.

Source:
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In comparison, U.S. GDP in the first quarter was up 2.9% at an annualized rate. Given China's still low per capita GDP (about 3/10th's of America's on a PPP basis), this is a pretty underwhelming report and China has the potential for consistently higher than 5% growth. Domestic demand continues to be a laggard with June retail sales up only 2%. The best solution would be for fiscal stimulus, and my preferred method would be giving marriage and baby bonuses for newlyweds and new parents.
 

abenomics12345

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Why is the Chinese consumer so pessimistic whereas the industry is doing so well?

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It's pretty simple, companies are making more 'widgets' and 'things' but making less profits making them. Imagine working harder, but getting paid less. Profits are growing at 3.4% (real, so with a negative deflator the nominal number is even less) whereas FAI in Manufacturing is growing faster. Employees are paid with nominal income - and its pretty f'ing hard to have higher nominal wage growth when companies are making less and less money despite making more products. Everyone obviously sees this, so propensity to consume is dropping despite reasonable wage growth - this is especially prevalent in current 'high income' categories.

For all the dEfLatIoN iS gOoD people, do some basic arithmetic - if nominal growth rate is below the nominal interest rate - you cannot reduce Debt/GDP - as the numerator (debt) is growing faster than the denominator (GDP).

it is due to fucking 润人 and 殖人 propaganda. they are economic saboteurs.

I have no doubt American propaganda is working full time (especially after the Reuters investigation confirmation of such activities against Phillippines re: vaccine), but propaganda only tends to work well when they are somewhat close to reality.

The counterfactual here being - imagine if Americans spent their effort shitting on Chinese HSR being terrible - regardless of how many Chinese people would believe such crap.
 

Index

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China GDP Growth in Second Quarter 2024 Came In At 4.7%

That brings growth in the first half of the year down to 5%. Exports were up 8.6%, factory output grew 5.3%, and high-tech manufacturing grew 8.8%. Urban real disposable income was up 4.6% and rural real dispoable income was up 6.8% in nominal terms in the first half of the year.

However, retail sales grew only 3.7% and real estate investment was down 10.1%. Youth unemployment was still high at over 14%.

Source:
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In comparison, U.S. GDP in the first quarter was up 2.9% at an annualized rate. Given China's still low per capita GDP (about 3/10th's of America's on a PPP basis), this is a pretty underwhelming report and
I think you need to adjust your expectations for how fast the no1 economy can actually go. This isn't the 1990s when 15% growth for China only means a slight growth for the whole globe. Nowadays, 5% growth for China means ~1% growth for the entire world. Solely from China.
China has the potential for consistently higher than 5% growth. Domestic demand continues to be a laggard with June retail sales up only 2%. The best solution would be for fiscal stimulus, and my preferred method would be giving marriage and baby bonuses for newlyweds and new parents.
The key stats here are:

1. Continued boom at 5% growth. By far best performing major economy with no potential of being overtaken in sight.

2. Amazing 8.8% expansion for the tech sector.

3. Retail sales growing slower than expected. Can probably be chalked up to falling real estate investment and post covid spending in other things than retail.

4. 10.1% drop in real estate investment. Although it slows our short term gdp growth, it's not a field that gives high societal value gdp, a drop here is highly desirable IF a boom can be maintained at the same time.

Gdp per capita is something that needs to be taken with a massive grain of salt, because (relatively) unproductive billionaires make up a disproportionate amount of gdp per capita. What you should look at is rather the number of middle and middle upper class people per country, as they're the ones driving science, infrastructure and industrial development.

Chasing America in gdp per capita is deceptive, because they're always gonna be boosted by oligarch led system vs China's civilian led system. What you should look at is the number of middle and upper middle class income.

Ambani alone gives every Indian +100$ in gdp per capita. And while Ambani himself is (maybe) more productive than a single Indian, he's himself not doing more to advance society than 1000 Indian engineers, despite being "worth" much more than the engineers in gdp per capita.
 

Enestori

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I personally believe that retail sales figures pre-COVID were not as reliable as now. Pre-COVID retail sales show essentially a straight - slightly declining - line. I'm skeptical of that remarkably straight line.

Post-COVID retail sales have a lot more variation and sometimes disappoint. That seems much more accurate. Perhaps pre-COVID retail sales data was smoothened and not reliable? I think some may get a mistaken impression by comparing the two.
 

Index

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I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true anymore. India is the world's third largest economy by GDP (PPP) and it is growing at a 7.8% annual rate.
Thanks for the update, haven't read Indian numbers for this year yet.

Even so, they trail US and China by a lot in absolute terms, it remains to be seen if they can sustain the same growth once they've reached US size.

Given that, "by far" would be hyperbole, but 5% on an economy that's nearly twice the size of the Indian one would still be the strongest performing, even if not by large margin.
 

fishrubber99

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I'm sorry, but this simply isn't true anymore. India is the world's third largest economy by GDP (PPP) and it is growing at a 7.8% annual rate.
Growing at 5% when the base economic size is $18 trillion is a better performance than growing at 7.8% at $4 trillion. If we just looked at percentages, Guyana would have the most successful economy of all time since they grew 38% last year.
 
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