Chinese Economics Thread

manqiangrexue

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
Chevalier said:
There’s a growing movement on TikTok for the public to push the UN for move for UN Resolution 377a.
It’s basically the world doing an”Responsibility to Protect” crusade against Zionist Israel.
How ironic that the Anglo Zionist ruling class will be destroyed by the very same tool they used to destroy Gaddafi.
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Sheesh, no wonder America's scared of TikTok. This video would be gone in 15 views on some YouTube/Facebook/X. Now they have to send agents to the kid's home and make it look like an accident and even that wouldn't get this video deleted in all nationalities of TikTok, only western versions at best.
 
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Eventine

Junior Member
Registered Member
dingyibvs said:
Deflation is a symptom, not a disease. Treatment, if necessary, should be directed at the disease, not at the symptom.

IMO, Japan's deflation is a result of their failure to keep up with any of the emerging tech from the late 90's onward, falling behind in cutting edge computing, software, smartphones, renewables, EVs, etc. They responded to this by holding onto the aging industries they're good at for dear life, resulting in a society that still relies on them (e.g. ICE vehicles, fax machines, etc.) and an industry that's very good at building them for cheaper and cheaper cost. Throwing cheap money has not worked because corporations realize these old tech have no future, and instead of investing the cheap money at home resulting in the virtuous cycle of rising wages -> rising prices -> rising profits -> rising wages they hoarded cash or invested them elsewhere.

In China, IMO deflation is the result of a shifting internal as well as global economic and trade structure. The property market, while a deck of cards, is something the average Joe could invest in and profit from. The booming renewables, EV, and semi market, while more substantial and enduring, is not yet something the average Joe feel confident in investing due to the volatility and immaturity of the Chinese equity market. This hurts consumer confidence. Then you have the falling commodity prices due to coming off of highs of the COVID era and the falling demand from the West from a combination of stagnating economy, trade barriers, and also coming off of COVID highs.

These are different diseases, and require different treatments. Artificially raising inflation by pumping money into the system will do nothing long term. For Japan, they need big structural changes to catch up to new and emerging tech. They've been talking about it for decades but nothing substantial has been done. For China, there needs to be a way to allow individuals to confidently invest in domestic corporations. Whether that's through reforms to the stock market or establishment of intermediary government-backed funds I don't know, but there needs to be a way to better mobilize Chinese citizens' capital. The commodity prices and foreign trade is cyclical and nothing needs to more needs to be done aside from what already is being done (e.g. rerouting trade, developing new markets, improving trade relations with Western powers with sticks and carrots, etc.)
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Chinese corporations are not transparently governed and there's certainly more to be improved there, but with regards to equities markets, this has not been successful in any country other than the US and possibly Israel. This is because of the nature of global finance and how it's built up to favor Wall Street and the dollar. China, even less so than Japan and South Korea - who have not had any luck with reliable equities investment either - cannot compete with the US here. People put their money into the US for a reason - it's because it's guaranteed to return ~8% year on year, contrary to other countries even well run ones, just by the nature of the global finance system run by the US.

The better option is to encourage the average Chinese to put their money into Chinese central banks, and to have competently run central bank investors who know how to distribute capital according to strategic goals. Returns on investment can then be managed on a national level. That's how the Chinese economy is structured any way - with the government playing a large role in financing critical sectors - and it's a safer bet than trying to develop an equities alternative to the US while the US holds all the cards in that domain.
 
A

Arij Javaid

Junior Member
Registered Member
Eventine said:
Chinese corporations are not transparently governed and there's certainly more to be improved there, but with regards to equities markets, this has not been successful in any country other than the US and possibly Israel. This is because of the nature of global finance and how it's built up to favor Wall Street and the dollar. China, even less so than Japan and South Korea - who have not had any luck with reliable equities investment either - cannot compete with the US here. People put their money into the US for a reason - it's because it's guaranteed to return ~8% year on year, contrary to other countries even well run ones, just by the nature of the global finance system run by the US.

The better option is to encourage the average Chinese to put their money into Chinese central banks, and to have competently run central bank investors who know how to distribute capital according to strategic goals. Returns on investment can then be managed on a national level. That's how the Chinese economy is structured any way - with the government playing a large role in financing critical sectors - and it's a safer bet than trying to develop an equities alternative to the US while the US holds all the cards in that domain.
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And you have occasional crashes like 2008 if you go all in on the US financial model.

I'm glad china hasn't gone that route. China's economy is built on much slid foundations than the US which is manufacturing
 
luosifen

luosifen

Senior Member
Registered Member
Big deals with the Saudis:

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Saudi-China investment event witnesses deals worth $25bn​


The investment conference was attended by top regional heads, including representatives from Saudi Arabian Oil Co., also known as Aramco, Saudi Basic Industries Corp., and ACWA Power.

The investment conference was attended by top regional heads, including representatives from Saudi Arabian Oil Co., also known as Aramco, Saudi Basic Industries Corp., and ACWA Power.




Updated 12 December 2023
Arab News
December 12, 2023 19:03
1635
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RIYADH: Trade and economic ties between Saudi Arabia and China are expected to further strengthen, with the recent investment conference in Beijing witnessing the signing of more than 60 memorandums of understanding and agreements valued at $25 billion.
The China-Saudi Investment Conference on Tuesday witnessed the signing of agreements in various sectors, including energy, agriculture, tourism, mining, and financial services. Additional fields included logistics, infrastructure, technology, and health care, according to a press statement.
The investment conference was conducted on the sidelines of a visit by Saudi Investment Minister Khalid Al-Falih to China.
A notable deal signed during the conference was in the information and communication technology sector, where the Saudi Esports Federation and Chinese esports tournament operator VSPO signed an MoU to promote opportunities, cooperation, and participation in eSports for $8.5 billion.
Meanwhile, China’s Oriental Energy Co. and the Kingdom’s Ajlan & Bros Holding Group Co. signed another agreement to explore areas of collaboration in manufacturing worth $7.5 billion.
In the energy sector, Saudi Arabia’s Ministry of Investment signed a deal with China’s state-owned CRRC Group to develop opportunities in the Kingdom covering project development and manufacturing of renewable energy and sustainable mobility worth $2 billion.
The investment conference was attended by top regional heads, including representatives from Saudi Arabian Oil Co., also known as Aramco, Saudi Basic Industries Corp., and ACWA Power, the press statement added.
During the conference, nine Chinese companies, including Huawei, Dahua, China Railway Construction Corp., and China Communication Services, received their licenses to open their regional headquarters in Saudi Arabia.
Additional companies that received licenses were China Harbor Engineering Co., China Civil Engineering Construction Corp., BGI Group, Nuctech and iMile.
A day earlier, Saudi Arabia’s stock exchange signed an MoU with the Chinese Shenzhen Stock Exchange to enhance collaboration and explore new opportunities in several areas, including joint listing and financial technology.
In September, the Saudi Tadawul Group and the Shanghai Stock Exchange signed an MoU to bolster cooperation and promote mutual development.
At the time, the agreement focused on dual listings of exchange-traded funds, initiatives related to investor relations and infrastructure development, as well as fintech, environmental and social practices.
In November, the Saudi Central Bank, also known as SAMA and the People’s Bank of China signed a local currency swap agreement worth $6.93 billion.
According to a press statement issued by SAMA, the three-year agreement “has been established in the context of financial cooperation between the Saudi Central Bank and the People’s Bank of China.”
China’s central bank said that the swap agreement can be extended after two years by mutual agreement.
 
escobar

escobar

Brigadier
donjasjit said:
The West claims that China is in dire economic trouble, the reality is China is leading in multiple strategic industries and the lead is increasing.

Have a look at the article below-
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This data is only till 2020, so the lead might have increased a lot since then.
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The Information Technology & Innovation Foundation (ITIF) report
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bebops

Junior Member
Registered Member
China's deflation headlines have been constantly on the West media. I don't believe China wants to fix this deflation. They probably played a role by getting to this point. In the past, I've said that deflation is great because it helps boost the exports. The West cannot resist buying products at low price. More exports more jobs.

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sunnymaxi

sunnymaxi

Captain
Registered Member
Massive recovery in Travelling ..

China's tourism market experienced a remarkable surge during the first 3 quarters of 2023. Domestic tourism recorded 3.67 billion visits and a staggering revenue of 3.7 trillion yuan ($520.47 billion) during the period, up 75% YOY and 114% YOY, respectively. Ministry has announced..

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