Chinese Aviation Industry

3.2T800H可应用主承力结构件价值量占比显著提升 我国两步并一步跨越式发展，T800H将成为下一代军机复材主要材料，空间潜力 大。复盘我国战机复材用量的发展历程，我们认内主要分为两个阶段：第一个阶段是
较早问世的歼-8战机以及歼-11，其复材使用处于尝试阶段，用量占比小于等于10%； 第二阶段是三代半代机到四代机的快速发展期，这一时期机型迭代没有明显时间维
度上的变化，复材用量占比迅速从10%提升至30%左右。
，沈飞三代机2019年开始放 量（2019年H1营收增速高因首次实施均衡生产导致），中航高科复材业务2019年上 半年营收提速明显，光威2018年H2营收开始提速至20%+。站在当下新型战机放量
预期强烈，根据三代机传导节奏复盘，2024年或为光威T800H明显放量元年。

Click to expand...

On usage of composites in the Chinese industries. Seems like Guangwei's T800H could be a mainstay for the next generation military aircraft. this particular one is referring to usage in J-16

我国新一代武装直升机已应用T800复材，复材用量超50%。欧美发达国家20世纪80年代已经开始研制和使用T800复合材料。欧洲“虎”式武装直升机复材用量达到了80%，而同时代的RAH-66 以及 V22，NH90 等几乎都达到了全复材机身结构的水平。据《直升机复合材料应用现状与发展》，我国直9、直10等用量在35%以上，碳纤维以T300为主，新研制的专用武装直升机复材使用量超50%，首次应用T800碳纤维。对标国外，我国直升机复材应用提升空间较大。

Click to expand...

The next generation attack helicopter will also be using T800 carbon composite. expecting to be > 50% of body weight. Big change over Z9 and Z10 both of which uses T300 and at lower %.

Sounds like domestic carbon composite T800 still has yet to pass PCD of C919. Need to wait a while longer and COMAC is still buying from foreign supplier. That's an obvious place they can improve in

Another big one is eVTOL and drones.

Current status for Guangwei
We got the new Baotou production of line producing T700 and better - 4000t
2000t more of T700S and T800S
up to 1100t of T800H
So if they get the new Baotou phase 1 and 2 into production, adding 10000t, China's T700 and up production will increase a lot

tphuang said:

On usage of composites in the Chinese industries. Seems like Guangwei's T800H could be a mainstay for the next generation military aircraft. this particular one is referring to usage in J-16



The next generation attack helicopter will also be using T800 carbon composite. expecting to be > 50% of body weight. Big change over Z9 and Z10 both of which uses T300 and at lower %.

Sounds like domestic carbon composite T800 still has yet to pass PCD of C919. Need to wait a while longer and COMAC is still buying from foreign supplier. That's an obvious place they can improve in

Another big one is eVTOL and drones.
View attachment 137076
Current status for Guangwei
We got the new Baotou production of line producing T700 and better - 4000t
2000t more of T700S and T800S
up to 1100t of T800H
So if they get the new Baotou phase 1 and 2 into production, adding 10000t, China's T700 and up production will increase a lot

Click to expand...

Question, is there a big different between T1000 and T800? I've read mixed info. Apparently there's a M70J coming out by Mitsubishi which is even stronger than the T1100

MortyandRick said:

Question, is there a big different between T1000 and T800? I've read mixed info. Apparently there's a M70J coming out by Mitsubishi which is even stronger than the T1100

Click to expand...

well, I think M series is supposed to be stronger than T series. They have different applications. T series are used on airplanes.

You can probably get some more weight savings with CFRP made out of T1100 vs T800H.

MortyandRick said:

Question, is there a big different between T1000 and T800? I've read mixed info. Apparently there's a M70J coming out by Mitsubishi which is even stronger than the T1100

Click to expand...

I found this chart on Toray's website:



The M series focuses on high tensile modulus not tensile strength, different material properties for different applications.


And yes, there is substantial difference between T800 and T1000, with an almost 20% increase in tensile strength.

@FairAndUnbiased
Also, I was reminded of our conversation earlier about innovation in chemical industry. This is exactly what I meant when I said that China is still behind, though progressing. There's no Huawei, DJI, BYD in the Chinese Chemical industry, and by that I mean a company hell bent on excellence and dominance. You need to find some wolf warriors from Huawei and let them loose in the chemical industry, or bring some chemical engineers and let them experience the Huawei culture.

The Chinese carbon fibers aren't perfect matches to Toray's grading.

As you can see here, Shenyang's version of T800 has tensile strength of 5900 Mpa, which is about 10% off T1000.

Guangwei's T800H is more comparable to Today's specs.

I see Guangwei also makes the T1100 equivalent now.

tphuang said:

View attachment 137123
The Chinese carbon fibers aren't perfect matches to Toray's grading.

As you can see here, Shenyang's version of T800 has tensile strength of 5900 Mpa, which is about 10% off T1000.

Guangwei's T800H is more comparable to Today's specs.

Click to expand...

i went through different links. and found this information.

The world's largest single high-performance carbon fiber base - Zhongfu Shenying Xining's 25,000-ton annual high-performance carbon fiber project has been fully put into production​

The strength of the T800 is 68% higher than the strength of the T300, and the modulus is 28% higher. The T800 is widely used in the main supporting structure of the airframe with wings, such as the A350 and the Boeing 787. IM7 is 37% stronger than AS4 and 21% higher in modulus. It is widely used in American Trident II submarine-launched missiles and F-22 and F-35 fighters.

Click to expand...

So keep this in mind. T800 series is sufficient for current generation of airliners and would make a lot of sense for military aircraft like J-20/35 and Z-21.

Japanese and American related enterprises and institutions have stated clearly that the application goal of the third-generation carbon fiber is to replace the current T800 and IM7 second-generation carbon fiber products in the high-end aerospace market, and to improve the strength and stiffness of the structural components of military aircraft.

Click to expand...

So the goal here is to put T1100 on your next generation airliner. And I think COMAC airliners as well as 6th gen aircraft are all on pace to do that. T1100 grade carbon fiber that 中简科技 is developing (ZT9) seems like it's already in testing. So, should be ready for mass production in a few years.

sunnymaxi said:

i went through different links. and found this information.

The world's largest single high-performance carbon fiber base - Zhongfu Shenying Xining's 25,000-ton annual high-performance carbon fiber project has been fully put into production​

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Click to expand...

Looks like the Xining phase 2 capacity is now fully in production. Their next project is Lianyungang which will probably go into production by 2026. It would seem to me that the key here is to actually find enough customers rather than finding enough places to produce them.

A producer can say its T1000 grade Carbon Fiber is ready, but until customers are satisfied with the batch production quality, it's not going to sell any of it. At this point, it seems T700/800 are all fully in production and being used. T1000/1100 stuff is still getting validated.

tphuang said:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

So keep this in mind. T800 series is sufficient for current generation of airliners and would make a lot of sense for military aircraft like J-20/35 and Z-21.


So the goal here is to put T1100 on your next generation airliner. And I think COMAC airliners as well as 6th gen aircraft are all on pace to do that. T1100 grade carbon fiber that 中简科技 is developing (ZT9) seems like it's already in testing. So, should be ready for mass production in a few years.


View attachment 137132
Looks like the Xining phase 2 capacity is now fully in production. Their next project is Lianyungang which will probably go into production by 2026. It would seem to me that the key here is to actually find enough customers rather than finding enough places to produce them.

A producer can say its T1000 grade Carbon Fiber is ready, but until customers are satisfied with the batch production quality, it's not going to sell any of it. At this point, it seems T700/800 are all fully in production and being used. T1000/1100 stuff is still getting validated.

Click to expand...

Mainland China now has the metallurgical technology and expertise to built it's own large Floatplanes and large turboprop transport aircrafts akin to AN-22

luncheonham said:

Mainland China now has the metallurgical technology and expertise to built it's own large Floatplanes and large turboprop transport aircrafts akin to AN-22

Click to expand...

What's with the obsession on a Chinese version of An-22 in today's era and age??

No, China doesn't need her version of the An-22.