I wish PRC design and build a large turboprop transport aircrafts designated for civilian operations. Akin to the AN-22 .
Chinese Aviation Industry
- Thread starter FriedRiceNSpice
- Start date
The thing is the A320 is basically early 1980s level technology. It is just that they modernized the engines and avionics.
I think China is learning a lot more by making parts for the A220 which is a way more modern design.
But it is still good to reduce import dependence either way.
I think China is learning a lot more by making parts for the A220 which is a way more modern design.
But it is still good to reduce import dependence either way.
remember that back 20 years ago, AVIC factories were fight tooth and nails to get into Boeing supply chain
And now, Airbus is busy building second assembly line in Tianjin without major order announcement.
Remember where China's aerospace industry came from. It didn't get here overnight. Both Boeing and Airbus using more Chinese suppliers actually raised the standard of various AVIC companies.
COMAC C919 wouldn't be successful if domestic aircraft body suppliers weren't already doing regular work with Airbus and Boeing aircraft.
And now, Airbus is busy building second assembly line in Tianjin without major order announcement.
And now more foreign A320 suppliers are setting up facility in Tianjin and they are building full wings there.
Remember where China's aerospace industry came from. It didn't get here overnight. Both Boeing and Airbus using more Chinese suppliers actually raised the standard of various AVIC companies.
COMAC C919 wouldn't be successful if domestic aircraft body suppliers weren't already doing regular work with Airbus and Boeing aircraft.
Great piece. 2 small typos, in 1st para you say "2024" when you presumably meant 2004. More egregiously, you showed a photo of a J10B/C and called it a J10A.
Never show your face around here again....
thanks, I have fixed that.
here is a chart of Titanium and composite material usage on various airliners. All the recently built ones have > 50% composite, mostly CFRP. And clearly a lot of Titanium also.
If you look at C919 composite diagram, it's basically only used in tail section, winglets, flaps, radome, engine cowling and a few other parts. I think the composite % is in the low teens.
That made sense when China didn't have much of a Carbon fiber industry. But now they have sufficient T700/800 production. Soon, they will have T1000.
Instead of wasting time with T939, what they need to do is to firm develop a new all CFRP wing for C919 like the one that A220 has. And they should look into ways to also cut weight in its fuselage.
Its composite usage is comparable to A320 series, but when Airbus develops its next generation narrow body aircraft, it's going to use latest material available. It makes far more sense to develop the most capable narrow body aircraft vs trying to cover the full lineup. I would put C919 upgrade as higher priority than C929.
here is a chart of Titanium and composite material usage on various airliners. All the recently built ones have > 50% composite, mostly CFRP. And clearly a lot of Titanium also.
If you look at C919 composite diagram, it's basically only used in tail section, winglets, flaps, radome, engine cowling and a few other parts. I think the composite % is in the low teens.
That made sense when China didn't have much of a Carbon fiber industry. But now they have sufficient T700/800 production. Soon, they will have T1000.
Instead of wasting time with T939, what they need to do is to firm develop a new all CFRP wing for C919 like the one that A220 has. And they should look into ways to also cut weight in its fuselage.
Its composite usage is comparable to A320 series, but when Airbus develops its next generation narrow body aircraft, it's going to use latest material available. It makes far more sense to develop the most capable narrow body aircraft vs trying to cover the full lineup. I would put C919 upgrade as higher priority than C929.
C919 rapidly evolving..
The North Research Center of COMAC has done the full-scale box section test and verification of the T800-level composite carbon wing.
According to COMAC, the completion of this project at the end of 2019 means that COMAC basically has the design, manufacturing and verification capabilities of the main structure of the composite wing of a large passenger aircraft.
there is a huge difference then and now. it seems, back then T800 was not mature. so it was just demonstrator and shows the capabilities of COMAC. but now things have completely changed. T800 is in full scale production.
so definitely in near future C919 will have composite wings. there is talk going on.
keep in mind that build a new wing is a very large step. You need to get your aircraft re-certified like in the case of 77X
So when you do that, you might as well, make other changes to it too.
The most ideal time to do this is when next-gen engine for short ranged aircraft is available. So you get maybe 5 to 10% cost savings through lighter aircraft + another 10-15% savings from engine.
So, things are not dictated by the availability of T800, but things that China may not have control over. Of course, they can also do this sooner if they want to have like a competitive all (or mostly) domestic version of C919. Either way, it's not something they can do immediately. It's a pretty big change.
This is where all their resources should go to. China doesn't need a A35K or 779 sized aircraft. It needs C919 to be as advanced as possible.
stretched variant of C919 is also a pretty big change. considering C919 is just on early stages.
last year COMAC announced stretched variant of C919 with the seating capacity of 210 passengers.. means redesign fuselage and the body. this indicate what COMAC is planning. if they can design the extended range variant so it means composite wing can be installed..
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sir, there is one news but related to C929 composite wing. but it has indirect relation with C919 so i m posting.
SAIC announced, the C929 composite wing development capacity building will complete as early as this year..
they already started work on C929 composite wing .. so C919 shouldn't be the problem.
stretched variant typically doesn't take that much effort to develop. They can probably work toward putting light material in fuselage in the mean time.
New composite wing is a pretty large change. Hence why I think they should aim to be get that into production in the early 2030s.
New composite wing is a pretty large change. Hence why I think they should aim to be get that into production in the early 2030s.