Chinese Aviation Industry

AssassinsMace · Jun 3, 2012

kroko said:
Well they didnt complain about russia subsidizing sukhoi. Why would they complain about comac ? I even saw somewhere on the internet that boeing cooperated something with comac.

Besides, complaining would lead to nowhere. It will take many many years for comac to develop a product that is safe and competitive enough to be able to get sales in US/EU airline markets. So it would be really pointless.

And the US has long accused Airbus of being subsidized. It's called being a hypocrite.

Why complain about Comac? Like I said the biggest passenger jet market for the next several decades is China. The US /EU markets are already saturated. China is the only big order market. It makes perfect sense to try to stop China from producing and thus buying their own airliner in order to keep them purchasing Boeing and Airbus. It sounds outrageous to me when I saw that story. But then the US and EU think they can dictate prices on Chinese produced rare earths too. Like an article in the Huffington Post said it's like if China ordered the US to drill for oil in Alaska and then dictated a cheap price for them to buy it and the US has no say.

Schumacher · Jun 3, 2012

kroko said:
Well they didnt complain about russia subsidizing sukhoi. Why would they complain about comac ? I even saw somewhere on the internet that boeing cooperated something with comac.
..............................

The Russian commercial aviation sector was never a serious competitor to Boeing/Airbus.

kroko · Jun 3, 2012

AssassinsMace said:
And the US has long accused Airbus of being subsidized.

And airbus planes have long been sold in the US, and vice-versa. The truth is every one subsidies their domestic aircraft industry. And everyone knows this. Thats why this dispute will never lead to anything. I think you should calm down in this regard

Besides, like i said, it will take a looong time for comac to build something competitive enough to sell in US/EU markets. Why worry now??

Lion · Jun 3, 2012

The biggest advantge of Chinese is, they have a huge domestic market. In fact, the biggest in the world.

They can dictate who to buy from. Since almost all domestic China airline has connection to the CCP.

C919 need not be better than what Airbus/Boeing offer. In fact, C919 need not even need to be compete outside China to be successful.

AssassinsMace · Jun 3, 2012

kroko said:
And airbus planes have long been sold in the US, and vice-versa. The truth is every one subsidies their domestic aircraft industry. And everyone knows this. Thats why this dispute will never lead to anything. I think you should calm down in this regard

Besides, like i said, it will take a looong time for comac to build something competitive enough to sell in US/EU markets. Why worry now??

I don't think you've been reading what I've been writing. The US and EU aren't worried about competition at home because Comac won't be selling any planes to the developed world. The US and Europe are thinking about it now because they don't want China buying their own domestically produced plane because again China is the largest airliner market in the world. Meaning for every domestic airliner China buys, the US and EU aren't making any money from them. That's what they want to prevent.

kroko · Jun 3, 2012

AssassinsMace said:
I don't think you've been reading what I've been writing. The US and EU aren't worried about competition at home because Comac won't be selling any planes to the developed world. The US and Europe are thinking about it now because they don't want China buying their own domestically produced plane because again China is the largest airliner market in the world. Meaning for every domestic airliner China buys, the US and EU aren't making any money from them. That's what they want to prevent.

And how are they going to prevent it? Theres not much that they can do to bar the chinese airlines and other non US/EU airlines from buying comac. Besides, the political fallout would be dire for them. Not to mention the consequences for boeing/airbus sales to china...

Not gonna happen. Otherwise, people in Boeing/airbus would have already protested. Stop seeing menaces everywhere. The only real enemy of comac is its present (and for many years to come) inability to make a competitive product. They must be much better than china´s car industry, which after so much government effort is now losing market share despite china being the largest car market in the world. Just because you have the single largest market, doesnt make your produts sucessful.

AssassinsMace · Jun 3, 2012

kroko said:
And how are they going to prevent it? Theres not much that they can do to bar the chinese airlines and other non US/EU airlines from buying comac. Besides, the political fallout would be dire for them. Not to mention the consequences for boeing/airbus sales to china...

Not gonna happen. Otherwise, people in Boeing/airbus would have already protested. Stop seeing menaces everywhere. The only real enemy of comac is its present (and for many years to come) inability to make a competitive product. They must be much better than china´s car industry, which after so much government effort is now losing market share despite china being the largest car market in the world. Just because you have the single largest market, doesnt make your produts sucessful.

The idea is to declared the C919 as subsidized thus punishable by the WTO. You can ask the same about rare earths yet they're filing a complaint about it. Again this is not about how competitive Comac is going to be in the US and Europe. The Chinese government can just order Chinese airlines to buy Comac. They don't want Comac to be competitive in their own domestic market by making Chinese plane more expensive. Never said anything about the Chinese was going to be equal to Boeing and Airbus. The Chinese only advantage is it's going to less expensive. Eliminate that by eliminating government subsidies and there will no advantage and will have to buy Boeing and Airbus. Get it?

7freedom7 · Jun 6, 2012

Russia, China to Produce New Long-Haul Aircraft, Vedomosti Says

By Yuliya Fedorinova, Bloomberg News | May 31, 2012

Russia's United Aviation Corp. and China's Commercial Aircraft Corp. plan a joint venture to develop and produce long-haul aircraft based on the Ilyushin IL-96, Vedomosti reported today, citing Russia's deputy minister of industry and trade, Yuri Slusar.

The agreement will be signed during President Vladimir Putin's visit to China next month, the newspaper said.

The venture will be based in China, which will fund the project, while the Russia side will provide technology, Vedomosti said.

Separately Russia's Rosoboronexport agreed with China to supply aircraft engines in a contract, which is valued at as much as US$700 million, Vedomosti said, citing a person it didn't identify.

^^ Very nice if the project is put into effect. AFAIK, IL-96M has passed the FAA certification and that means this long haul bird can be exported to any nation all over the world.

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kroko · Jun 6, 2012

No word about any Il-96 deal betwen china and russia. However, Putin during the joint conference with Hu, mentioned that plans are being expedited betwen russia and china about jointly developing long-range wide bodied aircraft and heavy helicopters.

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Equation · Jun 7, 2012

It looks like the deal so far the Russian will be providing intellectual property rights, while China provides the funding and manufacturing of the IL-96.

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Chinese Aviation Industry

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

Schumacher

Senior Member

kroko

Senior Member

Lion

Senior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

kroko

Senior Member

AssassinsMace

Lieutenant General

7freedom7

New Member

kroko

Senior Member

Equation

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