China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft

Schumacher

Senior Member
According to what i have read Antonov did design or help design the wing.
However let me mention this, Antonov is not the only aircraft company in Ukraine niether the only potential provider,
while i am not affirming more ukranian companies are doing it, i simply have use my knowledge of history of aviation.
................

And where are the stuffs that you read ? Must be the usual wishful thinking from some Russian media.
Antonov can't even design a modern strategic lifter in the size/lift class of Y20, C17 for itself, let alone help others,
and I don't mean those oversized, impractical lifters that no one wants.
Maybe they helped with the toilet design in Y20. :)
 

MwRYum

Major
According to what i have read Antonov did design or help design the wing.
However let me mention this, Antonov is not the only aircraft company in Ukraine niether the only potential provider,
while i am not affirming more ukranian companies are doing it, i simply have use my knowledge of history of aviation.

Is not laziness or pride, there you have a misunderstanding about me, up to what i know not only for Chinese aviation, but also american, Russian aviation, and in general aviation; Aircraft are not build upon a single company, but are a mosaic of them.

In fact if the Russian sources are right and Antonov designed or helped to design the wing of Y-20 as well the engines are D-30 from Russia, it makes Y-20 the result of at least 3 nations.

For me it is enough to guess, and i say guess wondering if other Russian or Ukranian suppliers are not involved in the program.

We simply have different ways of seeing aviation.

Either provide an URL or scan that article into a PDF and post it online, or the base of your argument is as stable as quicksand. Just saying things "as such" without means of proofing it so would be most damning for your own sake.

The only obvious foreign component/input on the Y-20 the 4 D-30 engines, which we don't know for certain whether those are specially purchased or provisioned out of existing stock the Chinese held, or is using the D-30 engine is intentional in this phase (or in the initial phase of service), nor how "re-engineable" the Y-20 design is when its intended domestic engine is finally ready.

Seriously, those "in the know" won't be allowed to talk outside the official channels anyway, so we all have to go by the tidbits of information here and there.

Think it's about time to stop this "dog chasing its tail" nonsense of "globalization" because it gets nowhere. Or you rather wait for the mod to step in and close this thread? The proverbial blood will be all on you hands.
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
Seriously, those "in the know" won't be allowed to talk outside the official channels anyway, so we all have to go by the tidbits of information here and there.

Think it's about time to stop this "dog chasing its tail" nonsense of "globalization" because it gets nowhere. Or you rather wait for the mod to step in and close this thread? The proverbial blood will be all on you hands.

I have provided reports that claimed Antonov helped in Y-20, even TPhuang has read them, the point is the way you look aviation, i see it as a an internationalization of the manufacturing work, you think it is not, China will do it alone, however i can not find aircraft programs that are purely chinese, in all the programs i see some help from abroad.


You think this will stop, well i think this will continue.
we will need to agree to disagree, and respect our points of view.

Only time will tell.
 
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Schumacher

Senior Member
I have provided reports that claimed Antonov helped in Y-20, even TPhuang has read them, the point is the way you look aviation, i see it as a an internationalization of the manufacturing work, you think it is not, China will do it alone, however i can not find aircraft programs that are purely chinese, in all the programs i see some help from abroad.


You think this will stop, well i think this will continue.
we will need to agree to disagree, and respect our points of view.

Only time will tell.

You only get respect for views based on facts or sound logic, not those based on wishful thinking or playing games with words.
 

tphuang

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
VIP Professional
Registered Member
I have provided reports that claimed Antonov helped in Y-20, even TPhuang has read them, the point is the way you look aviation, i see it as a an internationalization of the manufacturing work, you think it is not, China will do it alone, however i can not find aircraft programs that are purely chinese, in all the programs i see some help from abroad.


You think this will stop, well i think this will continue.
we will need to agree to disagree, and respect our points of view.

Only time will tell.

I only state that in their interview with Kanwa, they said that they provided assistance and then their help was no longer needed. How much they actually contributed to the project, I don't think any of us knows. It's safe to say they are not involved in the manufacturing process. You need to find some support ( a supplier) saying they helped in Y-20 project before you can continue this crazy theory that this is an international project. There is no proof of that.

Why don't you present any evidence that you haven't presented already and let other people decide and leave it at that. It's pointless for you to keep posting the same articles over and over again that says the same thing.


Also, this is for everyone:

I persuade everyone here to have an open mind when it comes to discussion and carefully look at other people's evidences.

Mig-29 doesn't seem to listen to other people's arguments, but a lot of members here also don't listen to arguments thta they view as making China look bad. For the sake of improved quality on this forum, let's all try to understand more and be more open minded. No matter how well or hard we argue for a side, it will not change the reality, so let's try to discover the reality.
 

MiG-29

Banned Idiot
I only state that in their interview with Kanwa, they said that they provided assistance and then their help was no longer needed. How much they actually contributed to the project, I don't think any of us knows. It's safe to say they are not involved in the manufacturing process. You need to find some support ( a supplier) saying they helped in Y-20 project before you can continue this crazy theory that this is an international project. There is no proof of that.

Why don't you present any evidence that you haven't presented already and let other people decide and leave it at that. It's pointless for you to keep posting the same articles over and over again that says the same thing.

I want to ask you something, why i do have to absolutely agree with you? why i have to accept your point of view?
What i posted said according to Russian sources that appear in Russian media, Antonov designed the wing.

Look i am not making the reports, they are there, I am mean we can agree we share different views, Russia has excellent relations with Antonov simply because they build togather An-148, An-124 and basicly Russia and Ukraine share common projects like An-70.
In fact Ukraine has a very large Russian population giving the Russians leverage in what they know Ukraine does.

So i ask why i can not believe those reports? it is obvious Russia can know many aspects of Antonov simply because they are still allies.

Why people here can not believe globalization is a fact?

I know we are not going to change in that regard, so if you want we can stop this and move on, let us agree we can not agree and that we hold different views.
 
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jobjed

Captain
I have provided reports that claimed Antonov helped in Y-20

It is likely they did help in designing or they provided advice. However, it is unlikely they are involved in the manufacturing progress. With the attitude China and every other country (except India) adopts in regard to self-efficacy, it is hard to imagine China will let Antonov have their hands around China's neck for a strategically important project such as the Y-20.
 

vesicles

Colonel
I want to ask you something, why i do have to absolutely agree with you? why i have to accept your point of view?
What i posted said according to Russian sources that appear in Russian media, Antonov designed the wing.

Why? Because your Russian sources are unreliable. Time and time again, they say China would purchase some of their hardware and had been eventually proven false. this is a typical case of "crying wolf". For instance, the Su-35 deal has been around for years and nothing actually happens yet. And every time, China comes up with a new weapon system, the Russians claim they have a hand in it. Yet, no concrete evidence supports such claim. I am not talking about "you said vs I said" kind of thing. Physical evidence! If the Russians openly claim they have something to do with a Chinese weapon, show some designs, even failed designs. The failed designs shouldn't be classified. Show one of them with Chinese writing on it...

And another question, if Russians are so confident about their technology, why do they always have to keep reminding people they got something to do with everything? They should consider anything short of completely independent development programs as failure. It's like a sports team keeps telling people "well, we lost by only 2 points. So it means we are nearly as good as everyone else..." The Soviets in the 60's would not brag about helping China with its atomic bomb...
 
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we will need to agree to disagree, and respect our points of view.

Only time will tell.

Good!! Let us do that and move on. Time will tell.


Back to topic, AVIC plans to export Y-20 and possible commercial derivatives


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Commercial derivatives of the Y-20, China's first domestically developed strategic airlifter that is expected to enter service around 2017, will be exported to other countries, according to aviation industry insiders.

"We will develop a number of variants of the Y-20 and we are definitely going to export them," said Tang Jun, chairman of Xi'an Aircraft Industry (Group) Co, a subsidiary of Aviation Industry Corp of China, and the leading maker of the nation's large aircraft such as the H-6 bomber and MA-60 regional airliner.

Tang, a National People's Congress deputy from Shaanxi province, told China Daily on the sidelines of the ongoing annual session of the NPC, China's top legislature.

The price of the Y-20 has not been set because the development cost has not been assessed and it is too early to forecast how many Y-20s will be ordered, Tang said.

Tang's company is the major developer and manufacturer of the Y-20, which sources said began to be developed in the early 1990s.

Tang noted that some of the technical standards of the commercial versions will differ from military ones.

Currently, the company exports more than 10 civil aircraft to foreign countries each year, he said.

"The Y-20 has huge potential in the commercial air transport market, but I think even the export of its commercial derivatives will also need permission from the military," Wang Ya'nan, deputy editor-in-chief at Aerospace Knowledge magazine and a military analyst, told China Daily on Wednesday.

"There is no precedent of a heavy airlifter being specifically developed into a commercial aircraft, but many users of the aircraft have experience operating heavy airlifters for civil or commercial purposes, such as airdropping aid supplies or rescuing citizens trapped overseas."

Wang expects at least 15 to 20 Y-20s will be manufactured each year after all tests are completed and said the aircraft will have a promising future in the domestic and overseas markets.

"There will be many corporate clients seeking it and I am convinced Xi'an Aircraft Industry will be able to meet the demands from both the People's Liberation Army and its corporate clients," he said, explaining that though the PLA may need as many as 300 such aircraft, this is a long-term contract.

"Even if the company only produces 20 Y-20s each year, the PLA will not purchase all of them due to expectations of more technologically advanced variants that will emerge later," Wang said. "In addition, the company will elevate its manufacturing capacity, making it easier to satisfy other buyers."

Compared with military versions, commercial derivatives of the Y-20 will remove equipment only serving military purposes such as seats for paratroops and fastening apparatus for large weapons, he said.

"The technical work is not very difficult, but you'll have to meet clients' concerns over the aircraft's profitability and maintenance cost.

"Putting it into the international market, the manufacturer must meet a variety of higher and tougher requirements in terms of environmental protection performance and airworthiness qualifications, not to mention unpredictable factors like shifts in international relations and intervention from other nations," he said.

The Y-20, with a crew of three, has a maximum payload of 66 metric tons and a maximum takeoff weight of more than 200 tons, military sources said. The high payload means the aircraft can carry the heaviest tank of the PLA — the 58-ton Type-99A2.

According to a technical evaluation by Aerospace Knowledge magazine, when fully fueled and carrying a payload of 51 tons, the Y-20 can fly as far as 5,200 kilometers, which means it is able to reach every place in Eurasia, Alaska, Australia and northern Africa.

At its maximum payload of 66 tons, the plane can fly 3,700 km, enabling it to fly from Harbin in Heilongjiang to Lhasa in the Tibet autonomous region, it added.

Contact the writers at [email protected] and [email protected]
 
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Lion

Senior Member
I think Russian sold many IL-76 to commercial sector as cargo plane. Many are due to be replaced because of old airframe.

Y-20 will come in handy to compete with Russian IL-476.
 
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