You know well that no one can prove or disprove such information on a internet forum
Most probably antonov had a hand in Y-20 but no one can prove anything. Lets agree to disagree and end this discussion. Its going anywhere.
China's transport, tanker & heavy lift aircraft
- Thread starter Totoro
- Start date
You know well that no one can prove or disprove such information on a internet forum
Most probably antonov had a hand in Y-20 but no one can prove anything. Lets agree to disagree and end this discussion. Its going anywhere.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
I agree 100% and my whole point is we need to be humble to accept other people`s opinions, we sometimes we just do amateur picture analisyses, where we express our opinions without any base.
I said that because the aviation industry these days is highly complex.
Perhaps all sub-systems are Chinese i am open to believe that, perhaps not.
Perhaps it has some sub-systems from foreign countries.
For me the last possibility is normal as i see the world now.
Regards
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Domestic market of Ukraine consumes from 5 to 10 % of a products output of the aviation enterprises; the other production volume is delivered to the foreign customers and partners. It advances necessity to form the readiness not only to sell the end products, to organize cooperative production, but also to establish the out-of-Ukraine aviation manufacturing (Russia: the Voronezh joint-stock aircraft constructing company (An-148), Samara aircraft plant "Aviakor" (An-140), Ulyanovsk aircraft plant "Aviastar" (An-124), Omsk aircraft plant (An-70), Iran: Aircraft company HESA (An-140), China: AVIC (Y-7, MA60 and MA600)), etc.
Requirements of the customers stimulate preparing of the various modifications of the base aircraft versions.
Definitivley i am guessing but i have some bases to suspect Y-20 has some Ukranian sub-systems since already other Chinese aircraft do
What the hell does that have to do with the Y-20? Your logic is like plane A has components from Ukraine, therefore plane B probably does as well even though those two planes have absolutely NOTHING IN COMMON. Y-7 was derived from the An-24, Y-8 is derived from An-12, MA60 is derived from the Y-7 and the Y-20 is NOT DERIVED FROM ANYTHING. Therefore, it makes sense for the Y-8/Y-7/MA60 to have components from companies that designed them, whereas the Y-20 is NOT designed by Antonov.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Read well what i am writing, i did not affirm anything, i just said since there are reports Antonov helped in Y-20 and Antonov indeed supplies Xian, i consider there is a possibility, they might also supply sub-systems to Y-20 or even another Ukranian company since the Ukraine has good relations with China.
I do not know if you can give me the list of suppliers for Y-20, if you can not, then just consider we have different views on the matter.
We do not need to argue 3 or 5 pages attacking each other`s argument, but if we in a civilized manner accept we disagree and we have different opinions then well we can talk, otherwise as Kroko has said no need to point more about the issue.
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Personal "educated guess" based on past experience and knowledge in this matter. What bugs me is that you've spent long enough on this forum to know or learn how Chinese industrial complex works, but you refuse to do it. Either out of your personal pride for the former Soviet republics or laziness. I'm not sure which one it is. I don't have proof a list of all Y-20 suppliers, but I do have an article from Kanwa where Antonov said that it was originally helping China's transport project and later basically got taken off it and now has nothing to do with the project. Since China prefers to produce as much as possible internally and there is no reason to believe they can't do it based on what we've seen with Y-8 and Y-9 project and no foreign supplier with the exception of D-30KP2 have been mentioned on the project.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
According to what i have read Antonov did design or help design the wing.
However let me mention this, Antonov is not the only aircraft company in Ukraine niether the only potential provider,
while i am not affirming more ukranian companies are doing it, i simply have use my knowledge of history of aviation.
Is not laziness or pride, there you have a misunderstanding about me, up to what i know not only for Chinese aviation, but also american, Russian aviation, and in general aviation; Aircraft are not build upon a single company, but are a mosaic of them.
In fact if the Russian sources are right and Antonov designed or helped to design the wing of Y-20 as well the engines are D-30 from Russia, it makes Y-20 the result of at least 3 nations.
For me it is enough to guess, and i say guess wondering if other Russian or Ukranian suppliers are not involved in the program.
We simply have different ways of seeing aviation.
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Engineer
Major
Your suspicion is not a proof. Your quote above has no mentioning of Y-20 at all, which makes it totally irrelevant to the discussion.
Your argument is invalid since it is a form of fallacy know as . Y-7, MA-60, MA-600 are civilian projects, and do not represent military programs in anyway.
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Engineer
Major
Firstly, an aircraft being built upon multiple companies does not make that aircraft a resulting effort of multiple nations. All the suppliers of a single aircraft can exist inside one country. That is the case for J-10B right now. It will be the case for Y-20 when the Russian engines are replaced by WS-20.
Secondly, Antonov has not shown anything other than a CFD rendering. This is not the same Antonov providing the wings for Y-20 which I believe to be your misconception. A CFD model is nothing more than an aerodynamic idea, which may or may not have been used by China. It should be noted that China often takes ideas from others, such as ideas from F-22 and F-35 in the design of J-31. Using an idea from a country doesn't automatically make that country a partner in an aircraft project, just as it is ridiculous to claim J-31 is a joint effort between America and China.
Thirdly, and most importantly, the issue here is not the result of difference of view in aviation. The issue here is can best be explained by an analogy: others have essentially told you the Earth is round, and you go on insisting that the Earth is flat. Your generalization that all Chinese aircraft uses foreign components based on a few Chinese aircraft is no different than claiming the Earth is flat because the ground you stood on is flat.
asif iqbal
Lieutenant General
Once China starts shifting over sized loads around they will realise the value of Y-20
Austrilaian C17 Globemaster last year transported 1 million pounds of over sized heavy cargo from Abu Dhabi to Afghanistan in 4 days!!!!
C17 is a awesome lifter and a single load can exceed 70 tons, more importantly over sized, the C-5 super galaxy can lift a astounding 130+tons enough for 2 M1 Abrams but can not do over sized cargo quite like C17
Once China starts doing lifts of 60+tons they will know the true value of Y-20, infact they already do that's why they are bulding it but you know what I mean, it's brings a new capability to long range high speed intercontinental heavy transport
Austrilaian C17 Globemaster last year transported 1 million pounds of over sized heavy cargo from Abu Dhabi to Afghanistan in 4 days!!!!
C17 is a awesome lifter and a single load can exceed 70 tons, more importantly over sized, the C-5 super galaxy can lift a astounding 130+tons enough for 2 M1 Abrams but can not do over sized cargo quite like C17
Once China starts doing lifts of 60+tons they will know the true value of Y-20, infact they already do that's why they are bulding it but you know what I mean, it's brings a new capability to long range high speed intercontinental heavy transport