China's strategy in Afghanistan.

steel21

steel21

Junior Member
Registered Member
Arnies said:
Burqa? There is no Burqa in Saudi tradition so I don't know where you get that from.. Saudi Arabia is an open country to everyone by all definitions and there is safety on the streets for tourists and secure environment.

Unlike Iran which is by far the most extremist entity in the middle east and the most far-rights. Even for yourself you can get into Saudi Arabia at will and get out at will it is part of the freeworld and inter-connented to the world but not Iran is off-grid and secluded country.

Random tourists have filled up the Iranian jails for spy paranoia nobody goes there period.. It is North Korea type of shit going on there with it is notorious system.. Comparing Iran to Saudi Arabia is just an intellectual insult..

Saudi Arabia welcomes pre-covid approx 20-30million via tourism or Umrah each year... Iran on the other hand is one of the most secluded countries in the world next to North Korea and off the grid with very poor human rights or anything because nothing that happens gets out.. Iran is anti-free world and not connected to the world and has disconnected on purpose
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So you've been there? When and show long did you stay.

I lived/deployed in Kuwait for a year. Ideologically, Kuwait is probably more secular/liberal than KSA, yet I still saw burqas on the road. Kuwait does let women drive, but the burqa's are a real hazard, When the female driver turns her head to check the blind spot, the burqa don't usually turn with the head. I think Bruce Wayne had some experience with this issue back in the Dark Knight.

I generally take anything and everything the media says about a place or regime and dial it back by at least 30%.

Look at it this way, the fact that Iran cannot survive by oil revenue alone means that it will have to bring more secularism into its economy and governance, and that necessarily means the other 50% of the population, women.
 
Bellum_Romanum

Bellum_Romanum

Brigadier
Registered Member
steel21 said:
So you've been there? When and show long did you stay.

I lived/deployed in Kuwait for a year. Ideologically, Kuwait is probably more secular/liberal than KSA, yet I still saw burqas on the road. Kuwait does let women drive, but the burqa's are a real hazard, When the female driver turns her head to check the blind spot, the burqa don't usually turn with the head. I think Bruce Wayne had some experience with this issue back in the Dark Knight.

I generally take anything and everything the media says about a place or regime and dial it back by at least 30%.

Look at it this way, the fact that Iran cannot survive by oil revenue alone means that it will have to bring more secularism into its economy and governance, and that necessarily means the other 50% of the population, women.
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I think that dude is a P.R. person hired by the current KSA crown prince bin Salman. Since he's heavily invested into diversifying his kingdom's economy from petroleum based into getting some of that Chinese investors involved in his country. Lol just guessing.
 
R

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
Arnies said:
Iran is an extremist government and whereas Saudi Arabia is quite liberal despite being a monarchy. Lumping Iran with countries like these 4 you mentioned is an intellectual crime. The Ayatollah mullah system is the most extreme in the ME by far and most conversative society in the ME and also the most closed country. Hard to get in and get out zero tourism and everyone becomes a suspected spy
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Have you been to Saudi arabia? My hotel had a concrete barricade all around and an armored car parked in the front and armed soldiers patrolling the foyer due to terrorist threat. This was in Saudi Arabia’s oil capital. My female Saudi colleague can walk around in modern business dress in UAE but must change into a shapeless head to foot black bag before boarding a commuter flight back home. My male colleagues in Saudi Arabia’s state oil monopoly expressed mortal terror when conversation amongst expats on the same lunch table touch’s on the ruling prince, who incidentally had recently ordered a slightly dissident Saudi journalist dismembered with a hacksaw in the Saudi Ambassy on foreign soil.

Quite liberal by what standard? The Taliban?
 
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S

supersnoop

Major
Registered Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Yes He was about to pivot to China and aggressively confront China. In a hindsight the Afghan adventure brought China time to grow and therefore better equipped to ward off any challenge from US. Were the same thing happened in 2010 China will be in deep trouble
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China was definitely on the radar but the belief in the USA at the time was that China was still quite a few years off from posing any challenge.

Don’t forget the famous J-20 first flight when Robert Gates visited, it sent shockwaves to the US. It was thought that J-20 was still a CAD drawing, let alone a flying thing. There were so many articles about how intelligence now lacked HUMINT resources and relied too much on satellites and hacking/electronic means to gather info leading to this cluelessness. This was in 2011, so in 2001, China was legitimately further behind, even if underestimated.

Also remember the ridiculous yellowcake uranium from Niger thing. This was already well underway in 2001, so the pieces had been put in play before. We all know that stopping Iraq from getting nuclear weapons was never the actual goal because fellow "Axis of Evil" comrade North Korea was closer to nuclear weapons, and the whole world knew it because of the Pakistan revelations. Granted the Pakistani revelations were only publicly revealed in 2002, but I think we can safely assume there was some ideas behind the scenes before that.
 
R

Richard Santos

Captain
Registered Member
supersnoop said:
China was definitely on the radar but the belief in the USA at the time was that China was still quite a few years off from posing any challenge.

Don’t forget the famous J-20 first flight when Robert Gates visited, it sent shockwaves to the US. It was thought that J-20 was still a CAD drawing, let alone a flying thing. There were so many articles about how intelligence now lacked HUMINT resources and relied too much on satellites and hacking/electronic means to gather info leading to this cluelessness. This was in 2011, so in 2001, China was legitimately further behind, even if underestimated.

Also remember the ridiculous yellowcake uranium from Niger thing. This was already well underway in 2001, so the pieces had been put in play before. We all know that stopping Iraq from getting nuclear weapons was never the actual goal because fellow "Axis of Evil" comrade North Korea was closer to nuclear weapons, and the whole world knew it because of the Pakistan revelations. Granted the Pakistani revelations were only publicly revealed in 2002, but I think we can safely assume there was some ideas behind the scenes before that.
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J-20 gates episold was 10 years after 9/11. At the time of 9/11, the US thought of China more as a profitable source of low cost and low tech consumer products that might be prickly in some ways to deal with, but have little ability to significantly affect American influence even in its own region. A China that can serious challenge american interest even in the west pacific is thought to be about 50 years away.

China’s own more or less publicized goal of a world class navy by 2050 was thought to confirm american projection of China’s rise conformed more or less with china’s own. At the time America also still had boundless faith in the power of rising personal income to instill American style consumer culture and western liberal style political outlook in population of any culture background. So 50 years was thought to be enough time to make China into something like a mirror image of America consumer culture, so its rise would not be a mortal threat to primacy of the American led system of world institutions.
 
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MwRYum

MwRYum

Major
Overbom said:
Please dont whitewash Saudi Arabia here. We all know that Saudi Arabia has been funding and promoting extremist Muslims around the world.
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And that's the very thing that forced China's hand on its choice of policies in Xinjiang.

Else, China's problem over there would be just to keep the border secure, which is comparatively easier for the essentially "hostile to human" nature over there that mother nature did most of the work for China...
 
Arnies

Arnies

Junior Member
Registered Member
steel21 said:
So you've been there? When and show long did you stay.

I lived/deployed in Kuwait for a year. Ideologically, Kuwait is probably more secular/liberal than KSA, yet I still saw burqas on the road. Kuwait does let women drive, but the burqa's are a real hazard, When the female driver turns her head to check the blind spot, the burqa don't usually turn with the head.
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Burqa is not in Arab culture since you won't see Burqa anywhere there is no Burqa but what you mean is Niqab that is completely different thing.

Gatekeeper said:
I have heard of Saudis called many things, but liberal is not one of them.
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When you compare the two the Saudis by far are more liberal.. Hack there are even some American concerts taking place nowadays in KSA that is atleast 100 years away in Iran.. And as I mentioned earlier the rules is lax in KSA because it is a monarchy but Iran is a clergy country hence the clerics take this much more serious in applying the laws
 
O

Overbom

Brigadier
Registered Member
Arnies said:
Burqa is not in Arab culture since won't see Burqa anywhere there is no Burqa but what you mean is Niqab that is completely different thing.



When you compare the two the Saudis by far are more liberal.. Hack there are even some American concerts taking place nowadays in KSA that is atleast 100 years away in Iran.. And as I mentioned earlier the rules is lax in KSA because it is a monarchy but Iran is a clergy country hence the clerics take this much more serious in applying the laws
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Look man, you obviously have a bone to pick with Iran and you want to promote Saudi Arabia. Thats ok, this is an open forum.

However your posts in this thread are offtopic. This thread is about "China in Afghanistan". At most(just before becoming offtopic) this thread can include neighboring countries of Afghanistan, and their strategies in dealing with it.

Your talk about Saudi Arabia and comparing it with Iran is obviously offtopic. Religion is also offtopic if it is not stated in your posts on how it affects Afghanistan.

Take it as a friendly advice, you should stop making any more posts regarding Saudi Arabia and its comparison with Iran on this thread.

We are a friendly community so we are also open to your opinions but these should be made in the relevant thread, which if it doesn't exist then you can freely create and thus generate discussion on your topic from other fellow members

Thanks in advance
 
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