China's Space Program News Thread

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pla101prc

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Re: china manned space - news and views

rumour from the same guy that I've been posting for a while, this looks quite believable.

says the accuracy of the military service is 0.3 m. Atomic clock and other core technology are developed indigenously, can send short text message to ground. It will form a network in 2015 along with Haiyang series, FY series, data relay satellites, reconnaissance satellites. Basically says by 2015, it will provide complete coverage of Western Pacific Ocean for precision weapons.

didnt notice this one...so what does it mean when they say the network is integrated with all those other types of satellites?
 

Red Moon

Junior Member
Re: china manned space - news and views

There is no Soyuz shell involved, as the Shenzhou spacecraft is bigger than the Soyuz. The docking mechanism is an international "standard".

I think there IS a Soyuz shell involved, but China added propulsion to it, and this is what makes it bigger.
 

Blitzo

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Re: china manned space - news and views

An article from washington times on China and the Moon, and the US.
I'm interested in where they got the "Senior Chinese space officials have told their state media that China could be on the moon by 2022 at the outside."

Anyway the article's quite optimistic on China's moon landing opportunities while pessemestic on the US.
Pro China people of the world unite!! :p
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By John J. Tkacik Jr. SPECIAL TO THE WASHINGTON TIMES

NEWS ANALYSIS:

In November, Chinese air force commander Gen. Xu Qiliang observed that "competition between military forces is now turning toward the realm of space, [and] military modernization is ceaselessly expanding into space."

But during his visit to Beijing a few days later, President Obama talked about "cooperation" rather than competition. In a joint statement with Chinese President Hu Jintao, the two leaders called for "a dialogue on human space flight and space exploration, based on the principles of transparency, reciprocity and mutual benefit."

China's aerospace industry firms - which for decades have supplied dangerous missile technologies and equipment to Iran, North Korea and Pakistan, and which have been sanctioned ceaselessly by four successive U.S. presidents for their transgressions - will find the United States in a new suppliant posture.

The atrophying U.S. space program suggests that America will be forced to cooperate with China in space, or else cede the high frontier of space to China altogether.

In October, a White House committee headed by former Lockheed Martin Chairman Norman Augustine, reported that without $3 billion in additional funding, NASA has no plan that "permits human exploration to continue in any meaningful way."

October's launch of the experimental Ares 1-X heavy lift rocket, while flawless, may well mark the end rather than the beginning of America's next-generation Constellation manned-space program. The space shuttle is scheduled for retirement this year and until Constellation gets off the ground, future American astronauts will rely on Russians - or Chinese - to get into orbit - if they want to get there at all. America's multitrillion-dollar deficits over the next 10 years are likely to dissuade the Obama administration from budgeting for Constellation until well after Mr. Obama leaves office, if then.

The Pentagon is clearly alarmed by the prospect. The chief of U.S. Strategic Command, Gen. Kevin Chilton, told reporters Nov. 3, "With regard to China's [space] capabilities, I think anyone who's familiar with this business ... would have to be absolutely amazed at the advancement that China has made in such a short period of time, whether that be in their unmanned program or the manned program."

Senior Chinese space officials have told their state media that China could be on the moon by 2022 at the outside. Other authoritative Chinese space engineers see a moon landing as a next step in the Tiangong program that will launch three Chinese space stations into Earth orbit between 2011 and 2015. In 2008, NASA scientists told the Bush White House that, with the technology currently available to the Chinese space program, Chinese cosmonauts could be on the moon by 2017.

NASA sees China's strategy for a manned lunar landing as launch vehicle intensive. While America's notional Constellation moon project centers on a single - and still unbuilt - Ares-V "superheavy" lift booster for a direct ascent to the moon and two "lunar orbit rendezvous" operations, China will likely opt for two complex "Earth orbit rendezvous" maneuvers.
This will require four "Long March V" rockets - in the same class as the Pentagon's Delta IV heavy lift launch vehicles - to put their cosmonauts on the moon. Launched in pairs over a two-week period from China's new Wenchang Space Center on the South China Sea island of Hainan, the four Long March Vs will each loft 26-ton payloads into low Earth orbits. The first mission will orbit the rocket for the translunar journey which will then join a second payload of an empty lunar module (LM) and its lunar-orbit rocket motor. Those first two unmanned payloads will rendezvous in Earth orbit and then fire off for the quarter-million-mile journey to the moon.

Once the unmanned LM is in a stable lunar orbit, the second pair of missions will be launched into Earth's orbit; the first with another translunar rocket motor and the second with a combined payload comprising the lunar orbiting module, a modified service module, an Earth re-entry module and the manned Shenzhou capsule with three Chinese cosmonauts.

NASA's experts understand the capabilities, talents - and intentions - of their Chinese counterparts perhaps better than anyone outside China and Russia. China's Long March V rockets are in development now; Russian space scientists now aid their Chinese counterparts in perfecting the Shenzhou class of manned vehicles - closely modeled on the rugged, tried-and-true Soyuz; China has also purchased Russia's spacesuit designs and the KURS and APAS rendezvous and docking systems.

In contrast, NASA has resigned itself to the realities that America's space shuttles will be decommissioned by 2010 and, while the test-launch of the Ares 1-X heavy lift booster was successful, the follow-on Constellation manned program does not have a budget that will get it off the blueprint tables. Nor is NASA staffed with the scientists needed to support it. The median age of NASA's manned space engineers is now over 55. Over a quarter are past retirement age. Meanwhile, China's average lunar probe engineer is about 33 years old and the Shenzhou manned-space program engineers average about 36.

China's space program also seems to have all the funding and resources it needs, partially due to the fact that seven of China's nine most senior leaders - the Standing Committee of the Chinese Communist Party Politburo - are themselves engineers.

China may already be the second-largest manufacturing power on Earth and possesses a highly advanced industrial infrastructure. It now has more than $2.3 trillion in excess foreign exchange holdings - adding another $300 billion just in the past nine months, equal the entire gross product of Argentina. And China's top universities are rolling in research money, possess the latest laboratory equipment, and have their pick of the most brilliant students.

In 2005, China produced 351,537 engineers, with at least a bachelor's degree, nearly double the United States figure of 137,437; and a healthy chunk of China top engineers get their doctoral training at American universities. For example, of the 99 doctorates in engineering awarded by the University of Virginia from August 2007 to August 2008, one third - 33 - went to scholars from Chinese universities.

To be sure, China's imaginative and capable aerospace engineers have devised quite workable spacefaring designs, and their access to Russia's space science has helped accelerate their progress. And what the Chinese can't buy from the Russians, or learn at America's top universities, they can still pilfer from U.S. industry.

In July, Dongfan Chung, a former stress engineer with Boeing, was convicted of economic espionage involving 300,000 pages of sensitive data, including information about the space shuttle and the fueling system for America's biggest booster rocket, the Delta IV. In his ruling, the judge in the case noted that Mr. Chung, a U.S. citizen, had decided "to serve the [People's Republic of China], which he proudly proclaimed as his 'motherland.' " In 2008, Shu Quan-sheng, an American physicist living in Virginia was convicted of transferring to the Chinese People's Liberation Army details of liquid hydrogen tanks for the Delta IV.

This combination of financial wealth, educational excellence, advanced technology and a penchant for plundering intellectual property has enabled China's space program to develop swiftly. In 2003, China's gained entry into the exclusive manned-space club previously restricted to the United States and Russia. By 2008, Chinese astronauts were taking space walks and buzzing tiny "BX-1" nano-satellites around their space capsules, a technology that puts them on the cutting edge of "space situational awareness" that America's military space assets still lack.

Beijing's political and military leaders alike foresee "competition" in space with the United States. They certainly plan to seize the high ground of low-Earth orbit and then will likely move to the even higher ground of moon landings perhaps before this decade is out. Judging from the past behavior of China's state-owned aerospace firms especially in their unseemly eagerness to proliferate ballistic missile technology to rogue states, it is unlikely that Mr. Obama can count on much "cooperation" with China in space - except on China's terms.

c John J. Tkacik, a retired Foreign Service officer, was chief of China analysis in the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research during the Clinton administration.
 

tphuang

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Re: china manned space - news and views

I have not gone through this article, but I have to say that this guy is the absolute worst. He over hypes the China threat more than anyone else does.
 

Engineer

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Re: china manned space - news and views

I think there IS a Soyuz shell involved, but China added propulsion to it, and this is what makes it bigger.
You are contradicting yourself. If there is a Soyuz shell involved, then Shenzhou couldn't be bigger because the spacecraft's size would be constrained by that shell. On the other hand, if Shenzhou is bigger, then there couldn't possibly be a Soyuz shell involved because the shell wouldn't fit.

As to propulsion, Soyuz has that too. It is a basic requirement for all spacecraft, along with communication and power.
 

Red Moon

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Re: china manned space - news and views

You are contradicting yourself. If there is a Soyuz shell involved, then Shenzhou couldn't be bigger because the spacecraft's size would be constrained by that shell. On the other hand, if Shenzhou is bigger, then there couldn't possibly be a Soyuz shell involved because the shell wouldn't fit.

As to propulsion, Soyuz has that too. It is a basic requirement for all spacecraft, along with communication and power.

type "does soyuz have its own propulsion" into google, and you will get a long list of articles from all kinds of sources, all telling you that the Shenzhou orbital module has it's own propulsion, solar panels and more, where as Soyuz does not. There are other smaller differences, but otherwise they are similiar.

Aside from this, I think I did read something a while back from a Chinese source such as China.org or Beijing Review basically stating the Russians helped by providing them with the design of the Soyuz, although the Shenzhou is not a copy.
 

rhino123

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Re: china manned space - news and views

I am wondering why peoples are so obsessed with whether the chinese have help from other people in developing their manned space flight and mission. The bottomline is... WHO CARES???

As long as the space ship flies and mission is accomplished, it is a crediable feat for the Chinese.

Btw, as I have always believe - unless there is no one with previous experience or not willing or wanting to impart these experience, "Why do you want to reinvent the wheel?"
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Re: china manned space - news and views

I am wondering why peoples are so obsessed with whether the chinese have help from other people in developing their manned space flight and mission. The bottomline is... WHO CARES???

As long as the space ship flies and mission is accomplished, it is a crediable feat for the Chinese.

Btw, as I have always believe - unless there is no one with previous experience or not willing or wanting to impart these experience, "Why do you want to reinvent the wheel?"

Exactly. There is nothing wrong with learning from others as long as you don't' become too dependent on others or helpless on your own.
 

Engineer

Major
Re: china manned space - news and views

type "does soyuz have its own propulsion" into google, and you will get a long list of articles from all kinds of sources, all telling you that the Shenzhou orbital module has it's own propulsion, solar panels and more, where as Soyuz does not.
You are now deliberately misinterpreting facts to fit your skewed viewpoint. Orbital module is part of the spacecraft. Just because said portion of Soyuz does not have propulsion, that does not mean Soyuz itself does not have propulsion. I can assure you without looking into Google that Soyuz has propulsion, because a spacecraft without propulsion would be absolutely useless with no ways of bringing back the astronauts.

There are other smaller differences, but otherwise they are similiar.
Similarities are superficial.

Aside from this, I think I did read something a while back from a Chinese source such as China.org or Beijing Review basically stating the Russians helped by providing them with the design of the Soyuz, although the Shenzhou is not a copy.
No doubt engineers in China studied the Soyuz extensively to arrive at their own design, but there is no Soyuz shell involved.
 

Infra_Man99

Banned Idiot
Re: china manned space - news and views

It's obvious China learns from others, just like Russia, Europe, the US, and many other nations. Throughout history nations learned from each other. Nations have been taking and stealing people, knowledge, resources, and real estate from other nations for who knows how long. There is a reason why the US is always searching the world for the best and brightest minds. There is a reason why the US media and US companies are constantly traveling around the world and collecting data around the world. It's the same reason China searches around the world.

Absorb what is useful and reject what is not. ---Bruce Lee

It doesn't matter if the cat is black or white as long as it catches mice. ---Capitalist communist Deng Xiaoping
 
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