Blackstone
Brigadier
Especially rich people from the PRC.
China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
Especially rich people from the PRC.
Geographer
Junior Member
xiabonan, you raise many true and important points that more people ought to know about. I agree with you that America's rhetoric on human rights is unfortunately not always matched by its actions. Historians and educators have an obligation to hold leaders to account for their actions, good and bad. I'm not refuting your post, I'm mostly agreeing with it.
By the way, I was referring specifically to John McCain's self-professed values, and his actions over more then two decades in the Senate. I'm particularly impressed with his support for laws banning torture and vociferous criticism of human rights violations in other countries. But now he's giving Vietnam a pass because they serve his strategic aim of encircling China.
xiabonan, what I don't agree with is your implication that since America has committed gross human rights violations in the past, it should not speak up against such violations today. You say America should clean up its own mess before criticizing other countries. You're basically saying that no government should criticize another government until the critic runs a perfect government. If you adopt that attitude, the world would never progress because we've all committed original sin. Should a mother not teach their child not to steal because she herself stole something when she was a teenager? Should a father not teach their child not to fight because he himself got into fights in the past?
Moreover, the people who talk about human rights are often 1) diplomats with no control over domestic policy, 2) individual politicians with very limited control over domestic policy, 3) non-governmental organizations with little to no control over domestic policy. And for that matter, human rights NGOs like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch DO NOT give the U.S. a pass on human rights. Read their reports on the U.S. criminal justice system, the War on Drugs, police violence, Guantanamo Bay, War on Terror, and you'll see what I mean.
When China and Cuba want to criticize American human rights violations in the criminal justice system, Guantanamo Bay, or elsewhere, they have as much as right to as anyone else. Americans ought not dismiss the criticisms just because of who the messenger is. I reject reflexive xenophobia which says ignore anything negative that foreigners say about you. That is pre-21st century thinking.
By the way, I was referring specifically to John McCain's self-professed values, and his actions over more then two decades in the Senate. I'm particularly impressed with his support for laws banning torture and vociferous criticism of human rights violations in other countries. But now he's giving Vietnam a pass because they serve his strategic aim of encircling China.
xiabonan, what I don't agree with is your implication that since America has committed gross human rights violations in the past, it should not speak up against such violations today. You say America should clean up its own mess before criticizing other countries. You're basically saying that no government should criticize another government until the critic runs a perfect government. If you adopt that attitude, the world would never progress because we've all committed original sin. Should a mother not teach their child not to steal because she herself stole something when she was a teenager? Should a father not teach their child not to fight because he himself got into fights in the past?
Moreover, the people who talk about human rights are often 1) diplomats with no control over domestic policy, 2) individual politicians with very limited control over domestic policy, 3) non-governmental organizations with little to no control over domestic policy. And for that matter, human rights NGOs like Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch DO NOT give the U.S. a pass on human rights. Read their reports on the U.S. criminal justice system, the War on Drugs, police violence, Guantanamo Bay, War on Terror, and you'll see what I mean.
When China and Cuba want to criticize American human rights violations in the criminal justice system, Guantanamo Bay, or elsewhere, they have as much as right to as anyone else. Americans ought not dismiss the criticisms just because of who the messenger is. I reject reflexive xenophobia which says ignore anything negative that foreigners say about you. That is pre-21st century thinking.
shen
Senior Member
especially the rich and corrupt from the PRC. and children from central america.
Key word is hypocrisy here, let's not exaggerate.
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In other news, the Indonesian defence minister is visiting beijing. Amusingly, it's not being reported anywhere in western media.
Roger that Stoney, I actually met an EP-3 crewman today, who had a friend aboard the P-3 that Wang Wei struck, and he stated that Wang may have been requesting asylum, as he had previously held up a card board with an email address written on it, he stated they definitely confirmed a chute, and that it was possible Wang is one of your neighbors, living in So-Cal??? Wang's body was never found so who knows??? The Ret Naval Airman specializes in aerial mapping and is using LIDAR to map large geographical areas, he is now a high time pilot and seems very knowledgeable, he is home base in So-CAL.
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Actually the key word here is SOUTH CHINA SEA STRATEGIES, and you are also off topic, and to end off topic, there are between 12 and 20 million illegal aliens in the 48 states tonight as we speak, China has no such problems??? Eh?
I never accused anyone of being off topic, so I'm not sure why you're pointing that out.
If we really want to find the source of this latest tangent, geographer bringing up human rights vis a vis vietnam was probably the first slight deviation from SCS strategies to this BS about human rights and whatever, although xiaobonan shouldn't have responded so forcefully either. But fact is, any posts about human rights and democracy on this forum are always a post away from being met with a response about hypocrisy, especially in context of the US. We should make better moves to avoid those sensitive topics in the first place.
I posted a piece of news relevant to the thread, hoping to bring it back to relevance, so whatever.
AssassinsMace
Lieutenant General
Asking for email addresses is nothing strange. I heard about that. If he wanted asylum, why didn't he just fly to Taiwan? The EP-3 crew also mentioned that the guards at Hainan were sociable and wanted to exchange email addresses too. Everyone supposedly wants out of China yet do we hear about any of the 100 million Chinese tourists who travel overseas every year asking for asylum? And aren't they the rich ones that the media also says want out of China.
broadsword
Brigadier
It is not off-topic. Indonesia is part of South-east Asia and next to SCS and only a few threads ago, someone wrote that a high ranking Indonesia Defence official said China's SCS policies were problematic, et al.