China's SCS Strategy Thread

[Jura The idiot]

I didn't think I'd post on Spratly Islands but some Czech guy yesterday put on a Facebook page about fortifications this:

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contains interesting pictures of strongholds (or "strongholds" created by the various nations involved (I'm not going to translate this as it contains mischievous remarks about those countries, even Brunei ... calls is "minicountry")

 

[Lezt]

I would not characterize the Gang of Four as a "cell" within the CPC. It was just Mao's wife making a grab for power. There certainly are internal divisions in the CPC, and I'm sure there are even secret alliances among top officials, but that's pretty standard political intrigue. A secret society would mean some organization with a different agenda is running the CPC.

The closest thing to a secret society running the show in China would be the Ming Dynasty, where the Manichean Sect helped Zhu Yuanzhang become the Emperor, who promptly turned against them and massacred them all. Other secret societies, like the White Lotus or the Heaven-Earth Society, never even made it close to the reins of power.

Gang of Four aside, you have Dr. Sunyetsen and Generalissimo Chang Kai Shek; both being a member of Hongmun; a sect of the tiandihui the latter man could arguably be called the center of power for China for a good 20 years?

Now, this is what we know now today since they have been diseased for so long, can modern China have a secret sect? most definitly, why should we rule it out especially since we cannot prove either.

 

[broadsword]

Roger that Stoney, I actually met an EP-3 crewman today, who had a friend aboard the P-3 that Wang Wei struck, and he stated that Wang may have been requesting asylum, as he had previously held up a card board with an email address written on it, he stated they definitely confirmed a chute, and that it was possible Wang is one of your neighbors, living in So-Cal??? Wang's body was never found so who knows??? The Ret Naval Airman specializes in aerial mapping and is using LIDAR to map large geographical areas, he is now a high time pilot and seems very knowledgeable, he is home base in So-CAL.

It is one of the most famous tales that went around the officers' bars. The UK version was that he flew to Guam on a jet pack.

 

[xiabonan]

Disclaimer: this is going to be my last off topic response regarding this.

There are a few points that I want to address, having seen the previous few comments.

First, Geographer, I have no problem about American criticism on China's human rights issues--after all every government is entitled to speak what it wants to. What I find disturbing is that the US uses this excuse to impose sanctions on us. This is double standards and hypocrisy at its best. As I have mentioned previously, there are countries which are more authoritarian and still receive billions of dollars of aids from the US, meanwhile China faces decades long sanctions. This shows that the true purpose of the sanctions has nothing to do with "human rights" as the US claims, or rather, it is an instrument of containment.

Yet, the US government and the Americans refuse to acknowledge this and continue to point fingers.

Secondly, this is to Brat and Stone. I did not say the US is the "worst country". In fact it is undeniable that the US is a great country and continue to be a world leader in many aspects, such as tertiary education, innovation, science, and technology. Many Chinese students, myself included, aspire to study in top US colleges from a very young age. To be able to study in places such as Harvard, Yale, or Stamford, has been and still is a great motivation for me in my studies. It is not a shame to say this.

Not only students, many Chinese people, like you have mentioned, migrate to the US for various kinds of reasons. However it all boils down to the pursuit of a better life and higher living standards, for themselves, or for their future generations. It is only natural that people desire a better life, more opportunities, better environment, better welfare, so on and so forth. It is not only the US that's receiving Chinese immigrants, Canada, Australia, even Singapore, are very popular destinations. In fact you all know that it is not just the Chinese that's moving to the US as well. I believe Mexicans and Indians triumph us in this respect by a fairly large margin. After all this is an increasingly globalised world.

There is no conflict between American government's hypocrisy and supporting ruthless dictators and make citizens of other countries suffer, and the fact that America is still a rich developed country that attracts millions of immigrants from all over the world every year. I'd say there' little to none correlation between the two.

Last but not least, this is to Brat. Your reaction is really not the kind that I have come to expect from you.

It shows just how much Americans are used to criticize others and are easily angered and irritated when confronted with similar criticisms. Of course, you're going to deny that you feel any irritated and angered, but I think I'll leave that judgement to the rest who sees this conversation.

Do you guys know that under CCN's China section the 1989 Tiananmen Square has a permanent space dedicated to its own even after all these years?

Do you see how, every year around 4th June, articles will spring up from all major journals and magazines, reminding their readers of this incident?

American readers of their media are constantly reminded of the "atrocities" and "abuses" by other countries, especially China, and are constantly reminded of how "wonderful" and "free" the US is. But are the abuse of human rights of America's allies given nearly the same amount of coverage?

Do you get constant reminders of the list of dictators that America has supported?
Do you get constant reminders of the crimes and abuses of human rights of dictators who are supported or even placed in power by the US government, using American taxpayers' money?
The press in the US is often touted as being "free" and "open", because it constantly bashes and criticises the presidents, the senators. However, after years of reading Western media, I have no recollection of ANY American/Western media CONSTANTLY bashing and criticising the fundamental political structure of their governments.

There's little to none criticism at an institutional level. There's little to none direct praise or complimenting the political institutions of countries like China.

The Chinese are often criticised and labelled as being "brainwashed". However, who really are "brainwashed"?

I'm not suggesting the completely opposite case. I'm merely pointing out my observations, raising some of my questions.

We all have certain "boundaries" or "beliefs" that we are so used to, that we stopped questioning them. The Chinese have these, the Americans have these. I have these. But as I come to realise these constraints of my mind recently, it really rings a bell and I hope these are intriguing enough to make some of you guys think twice about stuff you never think twice about.

 

[solarz]

Gang of Four aside, you have Dr. Sunyetsen and Generalissimo Chang Kai Shek; both being a member of Hongmun; a sect of the tiandihui the latter man could arguably be called the center of power for China for a good 20 years?

Now, this is what we know now today since they have been diseased for so long, can modern China have a secret sect? most definitly, why should we rule it out especially since we cannot prove either.

Honestly, I don't think it's possible because of the way the CPC was formed. In a way, the CPC itself was a secret society when it was first created, and up until recently, ideological adherence to Marxism was a very important requirement of high-ranking members. Add to that the CPC was vehemently hostile against all forms of old traditions, especially during the Cultural Revolution, I can't see how any secret society could have survived to manipulate the CPC.

 

[solarz]

Back on Topic little fella, you are running fur afield, yes America is the worst nation on the planet, that's why people are breaking down the doors to get in here.

I'm sure there are tons of people breaking down doors to get a job at Google, Apple, etc. Does that mean those companies are above criticisms?

 

[Air Force Brat]

Disclaimer: this is going to be my last off topic response regarding this.

There are a few points that I want to address, having seen the previous few comments.

First, Geographer, I have no problem about American criticism on China's human rights issues--after all every government is entitled to speak what it wants to. What I find disturbing is that the US uses this excuse to impose sanctions on us. This is double standards and hypocrisy at its best. As I have mentioned previously, there are countries which are more authoritarian and still receive billions of dollars of aids from the US, meanwhile China faces decades long sanctions. This shows that the true purpose of the sanctions has nothing to do with "human rights" as the US claims, or rather, it is an instrument of containment.

Yet, the US government and the Americans refuse to acknowledge this and continue to point fingers.

Secondly, this is to Brat and Stone. I did not say the US is the "worst country". In fact it is undeniable that the US is a great country and continue to be a world leader in many aspects, such as tertiary education, innovation, science, and technology. Many Chinese students, myself included, aspire to study in top US colleges from a very young age. To be able to study in places such as Harvard, Yale, or Stamford, has been and still is a great motivation for me in my studies. It is not a shame to say this.

Not only students, many Chinese people, like you have mentioned, migrate to the US for various kinds of reasons. However it all boils down to the pursuit of a better life and higher living standards, for themselves, or for their future generations. It is only natural that people desire a better life, more opportunities, better environment, better welfare, so on and so forth. It is not only the US that's receiving Chinese immigrants, Canada, Australia, even Singapore, are very popular destinations. In fact you all know that it is not just the Chinese that's moving to the US as well. I believe Mexicans and Indians triumph us in this respect by a fairly large margin. After all this is an increasingly globalised world.

There is no conflict between American government's hypocrisy and supporting ruthless dictators and make citizens of other countries suffer, and the fact that America is still a rich developed country that attracts millions of immigrants from all over the world every year. I'd say there' little to none correlation between the two.

Last but not least, this is to Brat. Your reaction is really not the kind that I have come to expect from you.

It shows just how much Americans are used to criticize others and are easily angered and irritated when confronted with similar criticisms. Of course, you're going to deny that you feel any irritated and angered, but I think I'll leave that judgement to the rest who sees this conversation.

Do you guys know that under CCN's China section the 1989 Tiananmen Square has a permanent space dedicated to its own even after all these years?

Do you see how, every year around 4th June, articles will spring up from all major journals and magazines, reminding their readers of this incident?

American readers of their media are constantly reminded of the "atrocities" and "abuses" by other countries, especially China, and are constantly reminded of how "wonderful" and "free" the US is. But are the abuse of human rights of America's allies given nearly the same amount of coverage?

Do you get constant reminders of the list of dictators that America has supported?
Do you get constant reminders of the crimes and abuses of human rights of dictators who are supported or even placed in power by the US government, using American taxpayers' money?
The press in the US is often touted as being "free" and "open", because it constantly bashes and criticises the presidents, the senators. However, after years of reading Western media, I have no recollection of ANY American/Western media CONSTANTLY bashing and criticising the fundamental political structure of their governments.

There's little to none criticism at an institutional level. There's little to none direct praise or complimenting the political institutions of countries like China.

The Chinese are often criticised and labelled as being "brainwashed". However, who really are "brainwashed"?

I'm not suggesting the completely opposite case. I'm merely pointing out my observations, raising some of my questions.

We all have certain "boundaries" or "beliefs" that we are so used to, that we stopped questioning them. The Chinese have these, the Americans have these. I have these. But as I come to realise these constraints of my mind recently, it really rings a bell and I hope these are intriguing enough to make some of you guys think twice about stuff you never think twice about.

xiabie, this is a dirty nasty old world son, I am a Christian, I am an American, and I am a Maggart, I really like you, in fact as a Christian, I am commanded by my Master to Love You.....so I am going to tell you the truth, I KNOW YOU will listen, and think about it. When I as a brother, remind my other brothers here that, "lets bash America" is not the most honorable team sport,, they KNOW I'm right......

I challenge you to read my posts, and find me deliberately bashing or inferring that the Chinese people are anything other than kind, gracious, and honorable, I have a special place in my heart, not only for the Chinese people, but for the Taiwanese, my Dr. is a beautiful lady from the Philippines, and Yashiko was my first babysitter on Okinawa.... I can say with certainty, that my Dr. and my babysitter both "loved me", and took wonderful, personal care of me, so........ this is tremendously off topic, and it won't be here long, in fact, I am feeling the fat pilot breathing down my neck,,,,,, but I apologize to you, most profusely, and profoundly, and even though you are a "callow youth", I am bowing to you in respect sir, enjoy this for the few moments it is up, keep up your studies, and please come for a visit when you get to the US, perhaps we can find an aeroplane and arrange for a little flying lesson.... Brat

thank you for reminding me to be respectful! and I am most respectful, not only of you sir, but my brother posters, apologies all around gentlemen if I have been personally offensive to you in any way. most sincerely Brat

 

[Brumby]

Disclaimer: this is going to be my last off topic response regarding this.

There are a few points that I want to address, having seen the previous few comments.

First, Geographer, I have no problem about American criticism on China's human rights issues--after all every government is entitled to speak what it wants to. What I find disturbing is that the US uses this excuse to impose sanctions on us. This is double standards and hypocrisy at its best. As I have mentioned previously, there are countries which are more authoritarian and still receive billions of dollars of aids from the US, meanwhile China faces decades long sanctions. This shows that the true purpose of the sanctions has nothing to do with "human rights" as the US claims, or rather, it is an instrument of containment.

Yet, the US government and the Americans refuse to acknowledge this and continue to point fingers.

Secondly, this is to Brat and Stone. I did not say the US is the "worst country". In fact it is undeniable that the US is a great country and continue to be a world leader in many aspects, such as tertiary education, innovation, science, and technology. Many Chinese students, myself included, aspire to study in top US colleges from a very young age. To be able to study in places such as Harvard, Yale, or Stamford, has been and still is a great motivation for me in my studies. It is not a shame to say this.

Not only students, many Chinese people, like you have mentioned, migrate to the US for various kinds of reasons. However it all boils down to the pursuit of a better life and higher living standards, for themselves, or for their future generations. It is only natural that people desire a better life, more opportunities, better environment, better welfare, so on and so forth. It is not only the US that's receiving Chinese immigrants, Canada, Australia, even Singapore, are very popular destinations. In fact you all know that it is not just the Chinese that's moving to the US as well. I believe Mexicans and Indians triumph us in this respect by a fairly large margin. After all this is an increasingly globalised world.

There is no conflict between American government's hypocrisy and supporting ruthless dictators and make citizens of other countries suffer, and the fact that America is still a rich developed country that attracts millions of immigrants from all over the world every year. I'd say there' little to none correlation between the two.

Last but not least, this is to Brat. Your reaction is really not the kind that I have come to expect from you.

It shows just how much Americans are used to criticize others and are easily angered and irritated when confronted with similar criticisms. Of course, you're going to deny that you feel any irritated and angered, but I think I'll leave that judgement to the rest who sees this conversation.

Do you guys know that under CCN's China section the 1989 Tiananmen Square has a permanent space dedicated to its own even after all these years?

Do you see how, every year around 4th June, articles will spring up from all major journals and magazines, reminding their readers of this incident?

American readers of their media are constantly reminded of the "atrocities" and "abuses" by other countries, especially China, and are constantly reminded of how "wonderful" and "free" the US is. But are the abuse of human rights of America's allies given nearly the same amount of coverage?

Do you get constant reminders of the list of dictators that America has supported?
Do you get constant reminders of the crimes and abuses of human rights of dictators who are supported or even placed in power by the US government, using American taxpayers' money?
The press in the US is often touted as being "free" and "open", because it constantly bashes and criticises the presidents, the senators. However, after years of reading Western media, I have no recollection of ANY American/Western media CONSTANTLY bashing and criticising the fundamental political structure of their governments.

There's little to none criticism at an institutional level. There's little to none direct praise or complimenting the political institutions of countries like China.

The Chinese are often criticised and labelled as being "brainwashed". However, who really are "brainwashed"?

I'm not suggesting the completely opposite case. I'm merely pointing out my observations, raising some of my questions.

We all have certain "boundaries" or "beliefs" that we are so used to, that we stopped questioning them. The Chinese have these, the Americans have these. I have these. But as I come to realise these constraints of my mind recently, it really rings a bell and I hope these are intriguing enough to make some of you guys think twice about stuff you never think twice about.

You are completely missing the point that Brat was simply making. Your ongoing rant over the US is completely off topic. In a free society and free press, debates over the shortcoming of its government and policies are ever present - you just have to find publications of the opposing camps. Debates of conflicting ideas and world views are ever present - you just have to pick the right forum.

My memory of the genesis of the arms embargo had its root in a 1989 incident which forum rules do not allow us to go there and so we should just focus on the subject of this thread and not another US bashing session. If you wish to pontificate your world views on the US and its policies, I suggest you start another thread.

 

[Blitzo]

You are completely missing the point that Brat was simply making. Your ongoing rant over the US is completely off topic. In a free society and free press, debates over the shortcoming of its government and policies are ever present - you just have to find publications of the opposing camps. Debates of conflicting ideas and world views are ever present - you just have to pick the right forum.

My memory of the genesis of the arms embargo had its root in a 1989 incident which forum rules do not allow us to go there and so we should just focus on the subject of this thread and not another US bashing session. If you wish to pontificate your world views on the US and its policies, I suggest you start another thread.

What were you saying about replying to off topic posts?

Maybe this reply should have been in its own new thread, if you were so eager to continue this off topic tangent (I kid, I kid)

 

[Geographer]

Back on topic (which is the South China Sea disputes in case anyone forgot), Jura linked to a Facebook page with many photos of Spratly Island outposts. The first eight are Vietnamese, the next twelve are Chinese, the next four are from Taiwan-controlled Taiping (Itu Aba) Island, and the last three show the Filipino outpost on a grounded ship.