China's SCS Strategy Thread

Blackstone

Brigadier
Indonesia going public about concerns of Chinese taking over the South China Sea. It's likely Indonesia has held such views for a long time, so the real story is why now? Indonesia has good relations with China, so it's not clear what it can gain by poking the dragon right before the APEC meeting.

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Indonesia has labeled Chinese claims to the hotly disputed South China Sea waters as a "real threat." Vice Admiral Desi Albert Mamahit, who heads Indonesia's Sea Security Coordinating Agency, told a maritime security focus group that the waters surrounding several of the country’s islands were in jeopardy from an encroaching Chinese presence.

The Jakarta Post reported the maritime areas surrounding the Natuna Islands on the southern part of the Strait of Malacca technically do not lie within China’s proposed territorial claims thus far, but it added China has not clarified its position on Indonesia’s exclusive economic maritime zone. The Strait of Malacca is recognized as a prime strategic location, particularly for military observance of the South China waters.

“This is clearly a real threat for Indonesia,” said Desi, who is also a dean at the Defense University. Desi said Indonesia would need to prepare for moves China may make to further expand its claims in the area.

The forum aimed to establish Bakamla, a sea security organization, in the area to help support a warning system and military coordination in the event of confrontation.

Indonesia’s caution follows faceoffs between China and several Southeast Asian nations involving military ships, fishing boats and oil rigs in disputed waters. “This becomes complicated as there are conflicts between fellow ASEAN member countries and China. It will be difficult to speak in one voice, although so far ASEAN solidarity has always been maintained,” Desi added.

Countries like Vietnam, Malaysia, the Philippines and Brunei have been engaged in an ongoing geopolitical power struggle as China focuses on expanding its occupation of the area. Earlier this summer, China and Vietnam faced off about the location of a Chinese oil rig, prompting a standoff between Vietnamese and Chinese ships that led to collisions. Ashore in Vietnam, the oil rig dispute triggered anti-Chinese rioting and violence, driving out thousands of Chinese expats.

China is basing its claims on the resource-rich areas based on what they consider to be historical demarcations as proposed by ancient maps of Asia, despite being thousands of miles from Hainan, China’s southernmost province. The Philippines has been the most vocal in rebuking China’s claims in the disputed waters recently. The Philippines Institute of Maritime and Ocean Affairs posted a series of ancient maps refuting claims of China’s “historical ownership” of the area.
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
Of course, and honestly equation since you mentioned racism, I am very uncomfortable with animosity that many of our posters show toward Japan and the Japanese people. I was born in North Carolina, I went through integration in the South, I had four or five other fellows beat on me and take away my ball-glove, a couple of those guys I had considered my friends until that day..... so before you judge someone else for their outlook, the old Indian use to say, "walk a mile in his mocassins",,,, so to be honest, my observation is that we "all", and I mean "all" have some prejudices against others. and yes I am part Cherokee, and I do like my big knife, and love to shoot my arrows "instinctively".

Yes this is OFF TOPIC, so mods, feel free to do with this whatever it is you need to, but be sure to get them all.

Brat, one can be unyielding on Japan for not owning up to war crimes and celebrating convicted Class A war criminals without being racist. In fact, I don't recall many racially motivated comments directed towards the Japanese. Can you? My take is should Japan ever does a full Monty/Germany (I wouldn't hold my breath), most Japan critics on this forum would do about-face on their contempt for that country.
 

broadsword

Brigadier
Gosh, looks like the Honey Badgers evil sister, no wonder you have to take it out on us ace, she'd knock your block off,,, so go ahead, vent on your bros, we're here for ya..... and no, we're not coming over when you ask her if you can golf with us..........


I won't take it out on my bros here, but some people have been throwing stones and got off lightly.
 

Lezt

Junior Member
I highly doubt that any secret society is running things in China. For better or worse, there is only one source of power in China, and that is the CPC.

Well, I am not so sure about that, I mean the CCP did produce the Gang of Four - which is a cell within the CCP; can other like them exist?
 

solarz

Brigadier
Well, I am not so sure about that, I mean the CCP did produce the Gang of Four - which is a cell within the CCP; can other like them exist?

I would not characterize the Gang of Four as a "cell" within the CPC. It was just Mao's wife making a grab for power. There certainly are internal divisions in the CPC, and I'm sure there are even secret alliances among top officials, but that's pretty standard political intrigue. A secret society would mean some organization with a different agenda is running the CPC.

The closest thing to a secret society running the show in China would be the Ming Dynasty, where the Manichean Sect helped Zhu Yuanzhang become the Emperor, who promptly turned against them and massacred them all. Other secret societies, like the White Lotus or the Heaven-Earth Society, never even made it close to the reins of power.
 

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Indonesia going public about concerns of Chinese taking over the South China Sea. It's likely Indonesia has held such views for a long time, so the real story is why now? Indonesia has good relations with China, so it's not clear what it can gain by poking the dragon right before the APEC meeting.

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It is worth being wary as to whether this is his own opinion or whether it is reflecting official feelings
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
It is worth being wary as to whether this is his own opinion or whether it is reflecting official feelings

Vice Admiral Desi Albert Mamahit heads Indonesia's Sea Security Coordinating Agency, and unless he makes it 100% clear it's his own personal opinion, readers of the news article would take it as official stance of Indonesia's Sea Security agency. Putting it another way, high-ranking government officials that display loose cannon syndrome don't stay employed long, so whatever Admiral Mamahit said, he probably has the backing of the Indonesian government or at the very least, the defense establishment.
 

shen

Senior Member
Vice Admiral Desi Albert Mamahit heads Indonesia's Sea Security Coordinating Agency, and unless he makes it 100% clear it's his own personal opinion, readers of the news article would take it as official stance of Indonesia's Sea Security agency. Putting it another way, high-ranking government officials that display loose cannon syndrome don't stay employed long, so whatever Admiral Mamahit said, he probably has the backing of the Indonesian government or at the very least, the defense establishment.

The president of Indonesia himself said the SCS dispute is not a concern for Indonesia. Most likely scenario is that the US is using its military to military relationship to influence certain members of Indonesian military towards a hostile anti-Chinese attitude.
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Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
Vice Admiral Desi Albert Mamahit heads Indonesia's Sea Security Coordinating Agency, and unless he makes it 100% clear it's his own personal opinion, readers of the news article would take it as official stance of Indonesia's Sea Security agency. Putting it another way, high-ranking government officials that display loose cannon syndrome don't stay employed long, so whatever Admiral Mamahit said, he probably has the backing of the Indonesian government or at the very least, the defense establishment.

Hawks of all kinds manage to retain their positions in many governments despite aggressive views on matters. Doesn't mean they necessarily reflect official feelings and certainly not policy
 

Blackstone

Brigadier
The president of Indonesia himself said the SCS dispute is not a concern for Indonesia. Most likely scenario is that the US is using its military to military relationship to influence certain members of Indonesian military towards a hostile anti-Chinese attitude.
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That article was from August 1, and Vice Admiral Mamahit's statement is current. Things could have changed between then and now.
 
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