You don't own this place and this is a place to freely exchange ideas. I am not intimidated by someone who can not argue based on reason.
China's SCS Strategy Thread
- Thread starter lilzz
- Start date
You don't own this place and this is a place to freely exchange ideas. I am not intimidated by someone who can not argue based on reason.
I think what they meant was that nobody is disputing the fact that China was the first to discover and occupy those islands, which is in fact true according to what I have read. So if sovereignty is based on these historical claims then it is technically true in that it is not disputed.
Doombreed
Junior Member
Alright, I'll bite. My personal opinion, is that there is absolutely a dispute in the SCS. What I was getting at is that the CCP narrative of SCS being Chinese sovereign territory is inconsistant with their own propaganda. Allow me to elabrate.
Liaoning is sovereign Chinese territory right? No argument there. Are there different kinds of Chinese sovereign territory? Surely not. A m2 of land in Xingjiang is the exact same thing as a m2 of land in Liaoning. So why is the SCS different if it's Chinese sovereign territory? If North Korea OCCUPIES 29 km2 of Liaoning, would that be a dispute? If China spends 20 years trying to remove North Korean Army soldiers that occupies those 29 km2 of Liaoning with water cannons, what would the public response be?
So why is the SCS different? Indeed, my orginial question was, does Chinese citizen even know that 29 of the islands in the SCS are occupied by Vietnam? If not, why not? If yes, why is the SCS sovereign Chinese territory different to the Liaoning sovereign Chinese territory?
What I'm getting at is that in the SCS. Everyone is trying to get something MORE. No one really owns those islands. Should China owns them? Why not? Probably. And in all likelihood China will eventually own these islands. But that is a dispute. Not an infringement of sacred Chinese soil.
And the CCP's behaviour is indicative that they know the game they're playing, dispite what they tell the Chinese people and the world.
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Blackstone
Brigadier
The problem for China is she sighed UNCLOS, with the full knowledge the treaty doesn't recognize history-based sovereignty claims. So, Vietnam's challenge to China is EEZ-based. The Philippines is another matter altogether. PI made claims in the Spratlys soon after it sighed an alliance with the US, and has disputed territory with China ever since. The law suit in International Court is just the latest chapter in a long dispute.
couple points
1. Every country that are involved in disputes claims that the territories are their sovereign territory, if not then they have no basis for their claim. And Chinas position is no different, same can be said of Japan, Vietnam and Philippines. This is not just in the South China Sea. Unless you are implying that to be 100% consistent all countries should go to war over all disputed territories.
2. What is the difference between Chinese soil and sacred Chinese soil? Simply add adjective for emphasis does not change the substance of the words. You may not like their descriptive words but it does not change the substance of it. You said it yourself there is no difference between sovereign territory, it either is or isn't. There is no partial such claim would be weak.
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I've seen many Chinese news programs mention the islands occupied by Vietnam. I'm sure most Chinese folks know that either by tv or internet. how do they reconcile? there is a lot of different views some thought china dealt with those island grabs too softly, others thought it was right to let it slide for the moment and deal with economic reforms first and wait until the nation is stronger. but it seems most are very glad to see the Chinese govt taking a different approach now and be more active. it's quite thrilling to see images of a huge fleet of Chinese coast guard ships out there in action like this. I was having hot pot at my friends house when the HYSY-981 was being towed to its current location and when we saw the images on tv my friend didn't believe it was the china coast guard! I knew it was because I follow Chinese developments on this board and others but he doesn't so he had no clue. he had to move close to the tv in order to see the words "china coast guard'' and then he said ''oh shit those are really our ships!" you cant easily tell because every coast guard tend to paint their ships white. so I think the general Chinese public are just exhilarated and excited because they didn't expect it to see this.
Vietnam's EEZ doesn't even extend that far. If I am not wrong islands are not subject to the UNCLOS regardless of the EEZ, you can't claim an island just because its closer. I am not sure where exactly it says that history does not matter. There must be some historical context otherwise anyone can claim anything by forcefully putting people there.
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Any Chinese who wants to know about which SCS islands are currently controlled by countries other than China can search the term 南沙群岛地图 (Map of SCS Island) or 中国控制南沙群岛地图 (Map of SCS Islands controlled by China) on Chinese search engines. Since Chinese news media has made SCS dispute a big story, any keeners looking for more info would probably search them.
It just did a little test on sohu.com (搜狐), a fairly large and well-used Chinese search engine, using the Chinese terms I described above.
Here are some top picture results.
Both of them are in simplified Chinese so they are definitely made for Chinese viewers. Also they are not censored in anyway so CCP is not preventing ordinary Chinese from finding out which country controls what.
Here are the links
foxmulder_ms
Junior Member
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Blackstone
Brigadier
Well, the original authors of the current 9-dash line is the Republic of China government, currently on Taiwan and maybe will one day relocate back to the Mainland.