China's SCS Strategy Thread

[nameless]

Well, the whole point of the CCP PR is "every inch of Chinese soil is sacred! Not one step back! Chinese sovereignty will not be violated! All of SCS is China's territorial waters! No different to a square meter of land in Beijing!"

"Oh...yeah...except for those 29 islands...those we don't have control over and haven't been for a while...We're trying our best...but eh.....water cannons doesn't seem to do the trick"

Kinda eats into the CCP strong narrative doesn't it? You got to remember, the SCS issues are not framed as a "dispute" by the CCP. It's framed as "inalienable Chinese sacred soil". It's a kind of a big deal if the CCP accepts it as a dispute, as there are international frame works to deal with disputes. It paints the CCP into a corner doesn't it? That's why some Chinese citizens feel that the government is not doing enough. I'm just wondering, how those citizen will feel when they find out that another country actually OCCUPIES some part of the "inalienable Chinese sacred soil". And if they don't know, doesn't it paint a picture of what the CCP tell the Chinese and what they really think of the issue?

What? Since when is it not a dispute?

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Did you just made up a narrative yourself? Where did the "No different to a square meter of land in Beijing!" come from? And just because there is a dispute does not necessarily mean an international frame work.

 

[Blackstone]

Well, the whole point of the CCP PR is "every inch of Chinese soil is sacred! Not one step back! Chinese sovereignty will not be violated! All of SCS is China's territorial waters! No different to a square meter of land in Beijing!"

"Oh...yeah...except for those 29 islands...those we don't have control over and haven't been for a while...We're trying our best...but eh.....water cannons doesn't seem to do the trick"

Good point on water cannons are definitely not doing the trick, and I think Xi Jinping heard you. We'll have to see if artificial islands and perhaps new commercial ports and military bases on them would do the trick. What do you think of the artificial island project? Shinny, isn't it?

Kinda eats into the CCP strong narrative doesn't it? You got to remember, the SCS issues are not framed as a "dispute" by the CCP. It's framed as "inalienable Chinese sacred soil". It's a kind of a big deal if the CCP accepts it as a dispute, as there are international frame works to deal with disputes. It paints the CCP into a corner doesn't it? That's why some Chinese citizens feel that the government is not doing enough. I'm just wondering, how those citizen will feel when they find out that another country actually OCCUPIES some part of the "inalienable Chinese sacred soil". And if they don't know, doesn't it paint a picture of what the CCP tell the Chinese and what they really think of the issue?

Evicting trespassers and vagabonds are delicate matters, and stern measures should only be employed judiciously. No doubt, the Chinese people understand the nuances of the disputes.

 

[Blackstone]

What? Since when is it not a dispute?

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Did you just made up a narrative yourself? Where did the "No different to a square meter of land in Beijing!" come from? And just because there is a dispute does not necessarily mean an international frame work.

To be fair to Doomedbreed, Chinese officials have said there are no disputes in the SCS. They probably didn't mean it; it was probably just a poke at Japan.

 

[Doombreed]

What? Since when is it not a dispute?

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Did you just made up a narrative yourself? Where did the "No different to a square meter of land in Beijing!" come from? And just because there is a dispute does not necessarily mean an international frame work.

Hold on....hold on a second here....Let me get this straight.....One sec, I'm just gonna grab a seat.....I'm gonna have to sit down for this one....alright....

Are you telling me...are you saying....that the CCP admits that these islands in the SCS are in fact "in dispute"? Are you saying that the CCP admits that potentially that there is a possibility that maybe these islands that are "in dispute" are not in fact Chinese?

If you park on my drive way we're not in dispute. You're tresspassing. If you park on the grass verge between our house that it's not clearly marked on the council document and we're not sure who really owns it, and then if we go to court, depending on the judgement it could go either way and then we have to abide by that judgement....That's in dispute.

So which is it?

 

[Doombreed]

Good point on water cannons are definitely not doing the trick, and I think Xi Jinping heard you. We'll have to see if artificial islands and perhaps new commercial ports and military bases on them would do the trick. What do you think of the artificial island project? Shinny, isn't it?

Would be interesting to see what happens when the Vietnamese start building on their islands too.

Evicting trespassers and vagabonds are delicate matters, and stern measures should only be employed judiciously. No doubt, the Chinese people understand the nuances of the disputes.

Indeed. I think everyone deep down all understand the "nuances of the disputes". The Chinese citizens are not idiots. They get what's going on and they're fine with that. And I'm fine with that they're fine with that.

 

[nameless]

Hold on....hold a second here....Let me get this straight.....One sec, I'm just gonna grab a seat.....I'm gonna have to sit down for this one....alright....

Are you telling me...are you saying....that the CCP admits that these islands in the SCS are in fact "in dispute"? Are you saying that the CCP admits that potentially that there is a possibility that maybe these islands that are "in dispute" are not in fact Chinese?

If you park on my drive way we're not in dispute. You're tresspassing. If you park on the grass verge between our house that it's not clearly marked on the council document and we're not sure who really owns it, and then if we go to court, depending on the judgement it could go either way and then we have to abide by that judgement....That's in dispute.

So which is it?

How about there is a dispute and your are wrong? Is there anything illogical about that? Why would I bow to the authority of the some international court unless I am extremely desperate? Dispute does not have any bearing on claims to sovereignty, it is simply to acknowledge that there are differences in claims. Of course if I already control the territory then there would be little reason to acknowledge the dispute.

 

[Blackstone]

Would be interesting to see what happens when the Vietnamese start building on their islands too.

My guess is China would outwardly feign outrage, while privately applaud Vietnam's strategic mistake to engage in resource and economic battles of attrition with China. The status quo will shift over time, and probably not to Vietnam's liking.

Indeed. I think everyone deep down all understand the "nuances of the disputes". The Chinese citizens are not idiots. They get what's going on and they're fine with that. And I'm fine with that they're fine with that.

Sweet! We're in accord.

 

[Doombreed]

How about there is a dispute and your are wrong? Is there anything illogical about that? Why would I bow to the authority of the some international court unless I am extremely desperate? Dispute does not have any bearing on claims to sovereignty, it is simply to acknowledge that there are differences in claims. Of course if I already control the territory then there would be little reason to acknowledge the dispute.

Look, forget it. We're not even arguing the same thing anymore. I'm talking about how the SCS issues are framed by the CCP to the Chinese people. And the implications for that narrative when the Chinese people realise that Vietnam in fact occupy some of these islands.

Blackstone gets it. You don't.

 

[nameless]

Look, forget it. We're not even arguing the same thing anymore. I'm talking about how the SCS issues are framed by the CCP to the Chinese people. And the implications for that narrative when the Chinese people realise that Vietnam in fact occupy some of these islands.

Blackstone gets it. You don't.

Do you even realize the flaws of your own analogy? I have simply pointed out your absurd definition of dispute and narrative. Since when does dispute equals the possibility of admitting being wrong on territorial claims? It is framed as a dispute as I have provide my evidence. Again I ask you how is this statement "we are in dispute and you are wrong" illogical or wrong. Only when you let some outside force like the international court dictate your sovereignty does it mean admitting being possibly wrong on your claims. This is the reason why China refused to acknowledge the international court.

 

[Doombreed]

Do you even realize the flaws of your own analogy? I have simply pointed out your absurd definition of dispute and narrative. Since when does dispute equals the possibility of admitting being wrong on territorial claims? It is framed as a dispute as I have provide my evidence. Again I ask you how is this statement "we are in dispute and you are wrong" illogical or wrong. Only when you let some outside force like the international court dictate your sovereignty does it mean admitting being possibly wrong on your claims. This is the reason why China refused to acknowledge the international court.

Let me high light the stuff I'm trying to get across to you since you have an obvious deficiency in reading comprehension.

Look, forget it. We're not even arguing the same thing anymore. I'm talking about how the SCS issues are framed by the CCP to the Chinese people. And the implications for that narrative when the Chinese people realise that Vietnam in fact occupy some of these islands.

Blackstone gets it. You don't.

Go away.