China won Turkey's missile defense competition

FarkTypeSoldier said:

Looks like Turkey have extended the bidding decision to Jan 2014, and Shinzo Abe seems to be the real sabotage!

"俄罗斯战略与技术分析中心网站10月29日报道，土耳其国防部下属的国防工业局已决定将有关采购中远程防空导弹系统的招标活动延长至2014年1月31日。此举意味着该局在今年9月26日作出的采购中国HQ-9(红旗-9)防空系统的决定已遭否决，同时招标活动将重新举行。"

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Credablity unknown from this source from Russia! But it is a good read after dinner.

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Japan has no real pull on Turkey. The pressure mainly comes from US and NATO. Abe is just jumping on the bandwagon so if Turkey folds under US-NATO pressure he gets to claim points for public at home.

UK has warned that it may block Turkey entry into NATO as well as sanctions if the deal goes through. This is as close to a naked threat as you can get. What ever happened to fair competition?

NATO in general is putting a lot of pressure on Turkey to not ink the deal.

kwaigonegin said:

NATO in general is putting a lot of pressure on Turkey to not ink the deal.

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This will only backfire the situation. The Turkish believe they are reviving and they will become a major power. The even fact their arch rival greece is able to buy non NATO S-300 while turkish cant will be a slap in their face. The pressure will make them more determine to crave out on their own.

no_name said:

Japan has no real pull on Turkey. The pressure mainly comes from US and NATO. Abe is just jumping on the bandwagon so if Turkey folds under US-NATO pressure he gets to claim points for public at home.

UK has warned that it may block Turkey entry into NATO as well as sanctions if the deal goes through. This is as close to a naked threat as you can get. What ever happened to fair competition?

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kwaigonegin said:

NATO in general is putting a lot of pressure on Turkey to not ink the deal.

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Lion said:

This will only backfire the situation. The Turkish believe they are reviving and they will become a major power. The even fact their arch rival greece is able to buy non NATO S-300 while turkish cant will be a slap in their face. The pressure will make them more determine to crave out on their own.

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The traditional arms dealers mainly comes from US and European countries with US getting the bigger pie mostly. US and European military technologies dont involve tech transfer as they are sensitive and tech transfer and co-produce means that the buying country wouldnt replenish expended missiles or torn out parts if they could produce their own; which means a loss in selling country.

If Turkey buys FD-2000 and then produces its own component and parts, then the country would have its own initiative. THus, losing the US and NATO monopolising of the arms market.

If this deal goes through, it would also mean that other 'smaller' countries may choose to buy weapons from the Chinese market rather than the bigger pie holders. Hence the commotion over there in Europe.

CCTV confirms that Turkey extends bidding deadline further

From the source: Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu has repeatedly stated that for Turkey the sharing of technology is non-negotiable and questioned why other bidders are so reluctant to enter into joint production. It may not be clear who will ultimately win an agreement with Turkey, but Turkey will no doubt play all its cards to get the best deal possible.

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In the eyes of the Chinese in Mainland, many military analysts and fans thought that even if the final decision overturns the Chinese favour, the military industry of China have 'won' its PR and pomotions.

The above alone suggests that US and Euro systems' tech-sharing are not impossible but highly inpausible given the situation of the stae-of-the-art tech by these nations. Traditionally, Western have this feeling of "Who would want others to learn of its secrets for the sum of money paid?" however, in Asian context we have this "We can share the secrets within, but not all. I could teach you 60% - 70% and the rest you have to pick up or gasp it yourself". Its a double-edge sword in tech-sharing's context.

For the first time in history, China's high tech weaponry and technology favours the West. Next, imho China should try to promote some of the mid-tech weaponries to some of the Arab nations and South Amercia. Some of these nations have Soviet-era fighter such as the Mig-23, Mig-24 and these fighters are overdue its retiring age and non-upgradable anymore. Fighters such as JF-17 might be potent for these nation who have limited resources and sought a mid-tech & good budget air fighters. Pakistan who co-operated the R&D regards the JF-17 well and is building up its third squadon of JF-17. However, the soon to retired FA-18, F-15 and F-16 from the US is mouth-watery for these countries and US might not sell to them, in this case a few squadron of JF-17 would essentially boast up the nation's defense. But that is another story...

My humble two cents

FarkTypeSoldier said:

In the eyes of the Chinese in Mainland, many military analysts and fans thought that even if the final decision overturns the Chinese favour, the military industry of China have 'won' its PR and pomotions.

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That's undeniable, and not just in the eyes of the Chinese in the mainland.

【环球网综合报道】据英国《简氏防务周刊》11月3日报道，中国将与泰国在导弹和装甲车等武器贸易中展开合作。

《简氏》称，在“2013年曼谷国防与安防展”上，中国多家军工企业正和泰国军方建立合作伙伴关系。来自中国保利科技有限公司和中国精密机械进出口公司(CPMIEC)的管理人员向《简氏》透露，这两家公司均已同泰国国防部门进行初步接触，以寻求双方在陆基和海基武器系统方面可能的合作。

据报道，中泰双方存在合作意向的武器系统包括中国精密机械进出口公司的红旗-9地对空导弹系统，这一系统也是今年10月份土耳其选择向中国购买的FD-2000防空导弹系统。其他装备还包括FL-3000N舰载地对空导弹系统和FK-1000移动防空系统，以及保利公司的CS-VP3型防地雷反伏击车。(实习编译：钟建丽 审稿：聂鲁彬)

My translation:

According to a report by Jane's Defense Journal on 3rd Nov 13, China and Thailand is negotiating an arms trade on guided missiles and tanks.

Jane comments that in the Defense & Security 2013 in Bangkok, a spokesperson from CPMIEC reveals this issue and Bangkok seeks possible co-operations with CPMIEC to develop Land-based and sea-based weapons for defense.

Report comments that FD-2000 is a possible project for the Bangkok's interest. Other weapon system includes FL-3000 SAM & FK-1000 portable air-defense system and CS-VPS Anti-Mine armoured vehicle.

FarkTypeSoldier said:

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【环球网综合报道】据英国《简氏防务周刊》11月3日报道，中国将与泰国在导弹和装甲车等武器贸易中展开合作。

《简氏》称，在“2013年曼谷国防与安防展”上，中国多家军工企业正和泰国军方建立合作伙伴关系。来自中国保利科技有限公司和中国精密机械进出口公司(CPMIEC)的管理人员向《简氏》透露，这两家公司均已同泰国国防部门进行初步接触，以寻求双方在陆基和海基武器系统方面可能的合作。

据报道，中泰双方存在合作意向的武器系统包括中国精密机械进出口公司的红旗-9地对空导弹系统，这一系统也是今年10月份土耳其选择向中国购买的FD-2000防空导弹系统。其他装备还包括FL-3000N舰载地对空导弹系统和FK-1000移动防空系统，以及保利公司的CS-VP3型防地雷反伏击车。(实习编译：钟建丽 审稿：聂鲁彬)

My translation:

According to a report by Jane's Defense Journal on 3rd Nov 13, China and Thailand is negotiating an arms trade on guided missiles and tanks.

Jane comments that in the Defense & Security 2013 in Bangkok, a spokesperson from CPMIEC reveals this issue and Bangkok seeks possible co-operations with CPMIEC to develop Land-based and sea-based weapons for defense.

Report comments that FD-2000 is a possible project for the Bangkok's interest. Other weapon system includes FL-3000 SAM & FK-1000 portable air-defense system and CS-VPS Anti-Mine armoured vehicle.

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Latest news from Thailand is that they are shifting its attention from HQ-9 (FD-2000) to shoulder-fired SAM...

泰国国防部一位不愿意透露姓名的军官表示，的确中国的武器出口商正积极地向泰国军队推销红旗-9防空导弹系统，但鉴于中国红旗-9防空导弹价格过于昂贵，系统庞大，泰国陆军担心其容易发生故障且维护费用高昂，因此仍未确定购买这种型号的远程防空武器系统。相反，泰国陆军倒是对中国的QW-18(前卫-18)便携式(肩扛式)防空导弹情有独钟，打算用这种肩扛式防空导弹武器系统来取代其12.7毫米高射机枪防空系统。

目前，泰国空军及陆军防空导弹系统主要以中短程防空导弹系统为主，如加拿大厄利孔公司的阿达茨(ADATS)防空导弹系统，美国“红眼睛”便携式防空导弹系统和“霍克”中程防空导弹系统。据该名国防部军官透露，目前泰国也正在谈判引进英国的和德国的防空武器系统。

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An anoymous Defense officer CMPIEC is eagerly promoting the HQ-9, however the Chinese made air-defense system is too expensive for the Thailand Defense Ministry to afford the med-long range system; the high maintenence costs deter them from considering the HQ-9. However, the Thai Def Ministry is considering the possiblities of procuring QW-18 shoulder-fired SAM to replace its 12.7mm anti-aircraft guns.

The Royal Thai Air Force and Army is having the med-short range defense capabilties now with Canadian ADATS air-defense system, US made "Stinger" and "Stryker". Also from the same official, Thailand is considering English and German made air-defense system.

Sorry for double posting...

两名知情人说，雷神和洛-马公司正在考虑的方案更全面，更能提升土方能力。方案包括双方合作生产。另外，美方考虑是否更换“爱国者”系统使用的导弹。两人说，美方尚未作出最终决定。

雷神和洛-马公司以“爱国者”系统与中国、欧洲和俄罗斯企业争夺土耳其防空导弹系统合同。中方FD-2000（外销型为红旗-9）型系统9月中标。土耳其方面说，中方竞标条件最有竞争力。但10月底传出消息称，土耳其国防部下属的国防工业局已决定将有关采购中远程防空导弹系统的招标活动延长至2014年1月31日。此举意味着该局在今年9月26日作出的采购中国HQ-9（红旗-9）防空系统的决定已遭否决，同时招标活动将重新举行。据报道，土耳其国防工业局正式致函三家参与竞标的企业，宣布将延长招标期限，以便各方能提出新的招标方案。中国精密机械进出口公司的红旗-9将与美国的“爱国者”、欧洲的“紫苑30”继续展开激烈角逐。此前的俄罗斯竞标方俄罗斯国防产品公司将不再参与此次招标。

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According to two sources, Raytheon & Lockheed-Martin is considering a holistic concept to match Turkey's demand. This concept includes co-operation and production. In additional, with regards to whether US would change the missile type that the "Patriot" system is using, there has been no reply from US side yet.

After the inital bidding since Oct '13, the FD-2000 was initally selected amongst Patriot, Aster 30 and S-300. However due to US pressure from the decision, Turkey is now extending the bid to Jan '14. The second bid will include all of the the previous companies in the last round except Russian S-300.

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Round Two... FIGHT