China won Turkey's missile defense competition

FarkTypeSoldier

FarkTypeSoldier

Junior Member
Kurt said:
Considering the performance issues of the Patriot, there are differences between national versions. The US uses a cheap and crude manufacture (they go for quantity), while the Germans prefer good workmanship (they adopted quantity from the US). That is not widely advertised, but there are differences of the same system if you are able to look really close. For this reason the German patriot version is slightly more expensive.
Another issue, who trains the crews.
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Kurt said:
Who offered to train to Turkish personnel and which Patriot missile version was evaluated?
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Kurt said:
That does not exclude the possibility that the Chinese system is indeed superior. It highlights that the Patriot system is more complicated politically than cancelling the F-35 purchase by Turkey.
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Now we have an insight understanding...
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Kurt said:
Another issue, who trains the crews. An NCO of the Fla-Rak (German air defence) told me years ago:
There are regular competitions of operators of this system. One international and one for the US since the US soldiers did not score in the international competition. Germany is a leading country in air defence within NATO and their trained personnel dominates the winners of the international competitions with Patriot missiles.
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That reminds me of the NATO tank firing competitions some forty years ago that were regularly won by Dutch long haired conscripts, while the US Army ended somewhere in the middle.
Quite likely those conscripts did little else during their service time while the US Army types were expected to prepare for war but ....
 
B

B.I.B.

Captain
delft said:
That reminds me of the NATO tank firing competitions some forty years ago that were regularly won by Dutch long haired conscripts, while the US Army ended somewhere in the middle.
Quite likely those conscripts did little else during their service time while the US Army types were expected to prepare for war but ....
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As a ex serviceman, I would be surprised and more if our political leaders of the day told us to stop training for war and use the time learning folk dancing.
 
Kurt

Kurt

Junior Member
delft said:
That reminds me of the NATO tank firing competitions some forty years ago that were regularly won by Dutch long haired conscripts, while the US Army ended somewhere in the middle.
Quite likely those conscripts did little else during their service time while the US Army types were expected to prepare for war but ....
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It's true that the conscript armies were misused to train for specific contests for months in order to score.
This contest is done by NCO, so it's a meeting of professionals.

Perhaps the Taliban would be more inclined to give up if NATO beat them at traditional Afghan dancing sessions.
 
S

Scyth

Junior Member
It's understandable that the US isn't going to fund Chinese-missile purchases, as that would also mean financing the competitor. I wonder if it would affect the decision much as you could always use the US funding to finance other projects and cut back your domestic spending there.

DailyNews said:
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US to cut funding on Turkey's Chinese-missile purchase

The U.S. Congress is set to adopt a law next week forbidding Turkey from using American funds to acquire a $4 billion missile system from a Chinese company blacklisted by Washington.

The United States has voiced deep concern over Turkey's decision in September to enter negotiations with China Precision Machinery Export-Import Corporation for its first long-range anti-missile system.

CPMIEC, which makes the HQ-9 missile system, is under U.S. sanctions for selling arms and missile technology to Iran and Syria.

Turkey's move also irritated its allies in NATO, which has said missile systems within the transatlantic military alliance must be compatible with each other.

The annual U.S. defense authorization bill, passed Thursday by the House, contains a clause barring the use of "2014 funds to integrate missile defense systems of the People's Republic of China into U.S. missile defense systems." "Such a system would not be compatible with, and should not be integrated with, missile defense systems of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization," the Senate and House Armed Services Committees said.

Without U.S. subsidies, the cost for Turkey to install the Chinese missiles becomes steeper.

The bill is expected to be approved in the Senate next week, before being signed into law by President Barack Obama.

CPMIEC beat competition from a U.S. partnership of Raytheon and Lockheed Martin, Russia's Rosoboronexport, and Italian-French consortium Eurosam for the multibillion-dollar deal. These companies have until January 31 to submit new bids.

December/14/2013
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Kurt

Kurt

Junior Member
Scyth said:
It's understandable that the US isn't going to fund Chinese-missile purchases, as that would also mean financing the competitor. I wonder if it would affect the decision much as you could always use the US funding to finance other projects and cut back your domestic spending there.
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See the bigger picture, the ruling AKP party is moving away from Europe (EU association and membership dialogue) and from NATO towards a stronger role in the Middle East, Central Asia and Asia in general. Instruments are the Turkic Council and the SCO membership dialogue.
The Iraq and Syria situation did give Turkey much to handle in the Middle East and they do not feel comfortable with that (it's obvious why).
Plus, alienating from EU and NATO allows to strengthen the longterm fiendship with Greece (a phony conflict).
 
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