China need a new geopolitical Doctrine ?

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free_6ix9ine

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The lot in that article assumes that US allies in Asia hold the same values. I'm not talking about what they say in public. It's what they do in practice. Yeah no one in Asia wants to see China dominant but they will hold the same position for anyone else if they were the top power in the region. That's why nationalism is one of the worst in Asia. They said the same things about Japan in 80s. Just look at Hong Kong. The protest leaders are all silent over the police murder of George Floyd. Why? Because it has nothing to do with them. They know the consequences if they actually live up to what they claim to believe to be against police brutality and human rights violations. Their main sponsor the US government would get angry and lesson or rid support for them if they came out in support of US protestors and rioting against US police brutality and human rights violations.

If the US lost influence and power in the world, what would its Asian allies do? They won't be banning together against China. They're sycophants like they've always been. They will follow whatever power is out there for there own self-interests including China just like they do business with China right now.

I think China needs to revamp its image in Asia, so that Japan and SK and ASEAN see us as less of a military threat and more of a dependable trade partner. Thus they will be less obligated to stand on the US' side because they have to rely on US defense guarantees as a counter balance.

As much as I am proud of our military, I don't believe the saber rattling parades are helping our cause in any way. Instead they reinforce Japan and SK and our others neighbors perception that we are a threat. Let's develop cutting edge weapons, but keep them secret so we don't intimidate our neighbors while also keeping them as a nasty surprise if our enemies decide to try us.

On the south China Sea issue, we should make peace with our neighbors from a pragmatic standpoint and try to resolve our territorial disputes peacefully. We can sign agreements to jointly develop the natural resources and withdraw some of the heavy weapons in Scarborough shoal. I doubt that any ASEAN country will dare to try to seize our territoty militarily. So keeping SAM missiles there is not necessary.

Lastly, the uhygur issue is a constant thorn for the EU. They can't really be allies with China because it would not politically acceptable for them domestically. Lets get rid of that unnecessary system in Xinjiang. I think there are smarter, more sophisticated and more effective ways to catch terrorists.

Just my two cents. Obviously we have to give some ground here. But if we want to peel away Americas allies, we have to resolve our disputes with them. Alot of this stuff we are giving ground on won't really impact our national security. There more symbolic than anything else.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
I think China needs to revamp its image in Asia, so that Japan and SK and ASEAN see us as less of a military threat and more of a dependable trade partner. Thus they will be less obligated to stand on the US' side because they have to rely on US defense guarantees as a counter balance.

As much as I am proud of our military, I don't believe the saber rattling parades are helping our cause in any way. Instead they reinforce Japan and SK and our others neighbors perception that we are a threat. Let's develop cutting edge weapons, but keep them secret so we don't intimidate our neighbors while also keeping them as a nasty surprise if our enemies decide to try us.

On the south China Sea issue, we should make peace with our neighbors from a pragmatic standpoint and try to resolve our territorial disputes peacefully. We can sign agreements to jointly develop the natural resources and withdraw some of the heavy weapons in Scarborough shoal. I doubt that any ASEAN country will dare to try to seize our territoty militarily. So keeping SAM missiles there is not necessary.

Lastly, the uhygur issue is a constant thorn for the EU. They can't really be allies with China because it would not politically acceptable for them domestically. Lets get rid of that unnecessary system in Xinjiang. I think there are smarter, more sophisticated and more effective ways to catch terrorists.

Just my two cents. Obviously we have to give some ground here. But if we want to peel away Americas allies, we have to resolve our disputes with them. Alot of this stuff we are giving ground on won't really impact our national security. There more symbolic than anything else.
I don't think so. No country can be a world leader without an obviously powerful military. Asian countries will follow China when they feel that China holds a definitive advantage over the US both economically and militarily so staying on America's side is like lingering on a ship in flames. Weakness or perceived weakness is never the way to win allies over; they will predict that when push comes to shove, America is the still the winning side and keep their alliances there because they are scared of its wrath.

Some weapons should be kept secret but not all can or should. Some such as surface ships, fighter jets, etc... cannot. Others should not because being perceived as weak is a drawback rather than an advantage. But others should because the benefits of having your opponent be unprepared for them outweigh the risks of being seen as slightly weaker (which elevates the threat of war). I think the PLA has the best chance of correctly deciding which weapons are revealed.
 
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free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
I don't think so. No country can be a world leader without an obviously powerful military. Asian countries will follow China when they feel that China holds a definitive advantage over the US both economically and militarily so staying on America's side is like lingering on a ship in flames. Weakness or perceived weakness is never the way to win allies over; they will predict that when push comes to shove, America is the still the winning side and keep their alliances there because they are scared of its wrath.

Some weapons should be kept secret but not all can or should. Some such as surface ships, fighter jets, etc... cannot. Others should not because being perceived as weak is a drawback rather than an advantage. But others should because the benefits of having your opponent be unprepared for them is greater than the consequences of being seen as slightly weaker (which elevates the risk of war). I think the PLA has the best chance of correctly deciding which weapons are revealed.

That's why I'm suggesting we offer US allies an alternative. The only reason Japan and SK are so lockstep with the US is because they don't feel strong enough to defend them selves against a perceived enemy which in this case is China. And if China grows stronger and continues to saber rattle, its more likely that these Asian countries will be even MORE aligned with the US than less. Why would they follow a stronger China if China is their perceived enemy? That's why making peace with them is so important.

Military strength is important to develop. But we need SK and Japan to feel comfortable that China is a reliable partner and that they don't need the US. Because we are on their side.
 

manqiangrexue

Brigadier
That's why I'm suggesting we offer US allies an alternative. The only reason Japan and SK are so lockstep with the US is because they don't feel strong enough to defend them selves against a perceived enemy which in this case is China. And if China grows stronger and continues to saber rattle, its more likely that these Asian countries will be even MORE aligned with the US than less. Why would they follow a stronger China if China is their perceived enemy? That's why making peace with them is so important.

Military strength is important to develop. But we need SK and Japan to feel comfortable that China is a reliable partner and that they don't need the US. Because we are on their side.
They will follow strength. Be weaker/perceived as weaker than the US, and they will follow the US. Be stronger/perceived as stronger, and they will follow China. They just want to be safe as small countries have no ambitions to become great themselves. If America is stronger, then they want America to protect them from China; if China is stronger, then they want China to protect them from America. That is how small countries survive. It doesn't get simpler than that; a frighteningly powerful saber-rattling China of today is the best and strongest ally for mutual defense tomorrow. Just become friends with China. If China's not putting up any barriers to that, which it isn't, then it's not going to be a problem for them to make the change.

How do you think the US became "allies" with Japan and South Korea? It actually fought wars on both of their territories, proving to them its power. It did not charm them with kindness and perceived demilitarization.
 
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ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
Don't forget that the EU and US are partners and allies of MANY worse offenders of western standards of so-called "human rights". These nations and groups include/d; Saudi Arabia, Taliban, Al Qaeda, OBL, India, Nazi scientists, Japanese scientists during Unit 731, Israel, and a host of other smaller groups that are less high profile. The point here is they don't care about morality. They use it at their convenience to manipulate liberal democracy flag wavers with feel good vibes and gets the SJWs and Trotskyist lefties into their camp because their knowledge on history, politics, and geopolitics are very much half baked if it's there in any resemblance. The US and EU totally ignore the crimes of their friends and care even less for the wellbeing of the non-aligned third world.

Uighur strife is just one sore point of slight social mismanagement (I want to call it that as a matter of personal opinion) from the CCP and they've made a mount everest out of an anthill with that issue. They will ignore the thousands of Indian Muslims being beaten, butchered, lynched, and murdered every single year. They will ignore Saudi Arabia's irreconcilable standards. They will create focus and manipulation where it suits so even if the CCP had no radicalised terrorist prisons or extended HK SAR, they will only find more issues to exaggerate and spin. Giving concessions on good faith is a foolish thing to do. It's better to show resolve and retaliate disproportionately like the Israeli strategies when they were fighting and responding to Egyptian attacks.
 

KYli

Brigadier
Both Koean and Japan didn't have a problem to be China vassal states in the Tang, Ming, and Qing. What makes you think they would not accept an all powerful China as the leader of East Asia. When Japan perceived China as weak, it invaded China. But when they got their ass kicked in Tang and Ming dynasty, they quickly changed course and become China vassal state. Your view of pacifist power never played well in the real world.
 

ougoah

Brigadier
Registered Member
The US and EU literally used the gun to get the world on its knees. It's only now that they feel the need to promote this illusion of morality and kindness while it suits them and while they don't need to do the hard and dirty work because they're already wealthy and developed. Thanks a lot to slavery, looting, theft, colonising lands, stealing resources, murdering competition, destroying competition, and good old fashioned WASP clubs. How can people not see through this false morality? Humans are very suggestable creatures. Guess it's why marketing departments are so valuable to corporations. The brainwashing is real and dangerous.
 

Shaolian

Junior Member
Registered Member
What these so-called US' allies like Japan and South Korea are afraid the most is the current flux where the balance of power between the 2 superpowers are finely balanced. Where they have to thread carefully lest they offend either one of them. When one of the superpowers achieve decisive and overwhelming superiority over the other, the these smaller nations would jump ship at the first notice.

Why would they ditch America, when China couldn't demonstrate that they could be protected from America's wrath when they do jump ship. They need a strong China economically and militarily to deter any lingering American advances, when they do ditch them in the future.
 

Canuck place

New Member
Registered Member
I think China needs to revamp its image in Asia, so that Japan and SK and ASEAN see us as less of a military threat and more of a dependable trade partner. Thus they will be less obligated to stand on the US' side because they have to rely on US defense guarantees as a counter balance.

As much as I am proud of our military, I don't believe the saber rattling parades are helping our cause in any way. Instead they reinforce Japan and SK and our others neighbors perception that we are a threat. Let's develop cutting edge weapons, but keep them secret so we don't intimidate our neighbors while also keeping them as a nasty surprise if our enemies decide to try us.

On the south China Sea issue, we should make peace with our neighbors from a pragmatic standpoint and try to resolve our territorial disputes peacefully. We can sign agreements to jointly develop the natural resources and withdraw some of the heavy weapons in Scarborough shoal. I doubt that any ASEAN country will dare to try to seize our territoty militarily. So keeping SAM missiles there is not necessary.

Lastly, the uhygur issue is a constant thorn for the EU. They can't really be allies with China because it would not politically acceptable for them domestically. Lets get rid of that unnecessary system in Xinjiang. I think there are smarter, more sophisticated and more effective ways to catch terrorists.

Just my two cents. Obviously we have to give some ground here. But if we want to peel away Americas allies, we have to resolve our disputes with them. Alot of this stuff we are giving ground on won't really impact our national security. There more symbolic than anything else.


I don’t think there is any way China can revamp her image in Asia due to the fact that so much negativity and tension is instigated by the US. Japan and Korea are US allies “vassals” and so their media and politics are usually on the side of the US. In this situation, anything China does, no matter how benign, will be twisted in an negative light. And the only way it is not put in a negative light is when China gives way, in which case other countries can just continue pushing and pushing. It’s like someone who bullies you, and when you don’t fight back, it’s ok, but when you defend yourself, the bully cries foul. You can’t win in the bully’s POV.

The SCS issue has been longer standing for decades. Even Taiwan does not give up on the 9 dash line. If I understand correctly, Taiwan still uses the 11 dash line, which held more territory. China has tried in the past to jointly develop those oil fields with other asean counties but there was never agreement. I don’t think China has these policies for the sake of been aggressive. If it was not important, they would have let it go a long time ago, instead of letting this issue cause headaches.

As for xinjiang, these policies to reduce terrorism are necessary especially since lots of isis fighters are from xinjiang and can cause havoc. Maybe it’s a bit too heavy handed but overall there need to be More stability and increased jobs for those in xinjiang. There are no easy solutions but education is key. Development of the Silk Road can offer job opportunities. I think they are trying to use the policies to try to clamp down on unrest, and their mentality maybe that they rather over do it, then try to increase economic activity and improve jobs and livelihoods in xinjiang to make it stable. Rather then under suppress that region.

There’s a lot of things that happen behind the scenes that I probably don’t know about but I did realize that it is very difficult to improve your image as a country when someone who controls international media and has had much more experience with the global media empire is constantly biased against such country. Eg. In the past every time China had an issue with the island dispute with Japan and sailed a ship close to the island waters, China was he aggressor and it’s always chinas fault, never Japan’s. In actuality, when China and Russia were doing a joint military excercise, Japan would fly recon planes into the middle of the exercise, disrupting the exercises. Not a peep about Japan’s aggression. Another example is to look at the bbc, when China had he virus in feb, Wilbur Ross gloated that industries will come back to the US, bbc didn’t complain and somewhat supported his views. Now when the US had the highest rate of virus and protests and China only pointed out he irony of their previous gloating, the bbc ran an article on how China is gloating and pushing their advantage. They twist anything China does into something that’s malicious. When a senator said China is sabotaging the US ability to make a vaccine and China won’t share a vaccine, there was no evidence presented, but the bbc always mentions how China pushed conspiracy theories about US military bring in the virus. They didn’t even mention that trump tried to buy sanofi vaccine for use only in the US. In my mind, No point in trying to please their media, just continue with what makes China stronger.
 

free_6ix9ine

Junior Member
Registered Member
They will follow strength. Be weaker/perceived as weaker than the US, and they will follow the US. Be stronger/perceived as stronger, and they will follow China. They just want to be safe as small countries have no ambitions to become great themselves. If America is stronger, then they want America to protect them from China; if China is stronger, then they want China to protect them from America. It doesn't get simpler than that; a frighteningly powerful saber-rattling China of today is the best and strongest ally for mutual defense tomorrow. Just become friends with China. If China's not putting up any barriers to that, which it isn't, then it's not going to be a problem for them to make the change.

How do you think the US became "allies" with Japan and South Korea? It actually fought wars on both of their territories, proving to them its power. It did not charm them with kindness and perceived demilitarization.

I don't understand your argument. Japan and SK are not afraid that America will invade them or something, they are afraid that the US will abandon them to be taken over by a hostile China. That hostility is the exact barrier which prevents a mutual defense pact between China and Japan and SK.

Instead of being belingrent about SCS, diaoyu, THAAD, uhygurs, which is creating the exact type of hostility between China and neighbors that is preventing any sort of defense pact.

We should be very strong and continue to be even stronger. But not be belingrent towards smaller countries but instead focus on countering the US.
 
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