China naval drills in East China Sea

EDIATH

EDIATH

Junior Member
jantxv said:
If by true colors you mean being honorable and fair handed, it is a complement.

What I find most interesting is the Japanese accusation of the breakdown of discipline within the PLAN. Apparently the Japanese were withholding that information until the Chinese ambassador to Japan no less, back-handed the incident as the fault of the Japanese themselves.

So, is it common for Chinese officers that are piloting helicopters in the PLAN to repeatedly ignore commands from his superiors back on the Chinese ship? Apparently so, according to the Japanese who were monitoring and recording the conversations.

Why would Chinese officers ignore so blatantly the commands of his superiors? Perhaps the officers in question are favorite sons to high ranking politicians and know no one one that ship can touch him.

We have seen this Chinese insubordination before in the PLAN with the Hainan Island incident. Perhaps the breakdown in discipline in the Chinese armed forces is systemic and structural.

Very interesting indeed.
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Hmmm, a careful reading of the news pieces you quoted gave me the impression the "insubordination" hypothesis may not derive from concrete evidences (the unnamed Janpanese senion officer didn't really mention about "voice calls", did he?).

Another possibility is the Japanese side tries to play down the accusation by shifting it to the pilot instead.

I'm not pretending to be an insider or anything but Chinese armed forces are rather renowned for their iron discipline. Was it on the news last year PLA sodiers were ordered to parachute into the earthquake zone far below the safety height & suffered a few casualties for that?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
solarz said:
According to
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, the Chinese Ambassador to Japan is saying that China did announce this exercise in advance.
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Well if the Japanese gov. didn't show disapproval before hand they certainly have no rights to complain after the fact. Perhaps the Japanese media holds greater responsibility for making a big deal out of this incident?
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
siegecrossbow said:
Well if the Japanese gov. didn't show disapproval before hand they certainly have no rights to complain after the fact. Perhaps the Japanese media holds greater responsibility for making a big deal out of this incident?
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Likely, China only said that they were going to hold naval exercises in that area, but when 8 destroyers and 2 subs showed up, the Japanese freaked out.
 
Hendrik_2000

Hendrik_2000

Lieutenant General
EDIATH said:
Hmmm, a careful reading of the news pieces you quoted gave me the impression the "insubordination" hypothesis may not derive from concrete evidences (the unnamed Janpanese senion officer didn't really mention about "voice calls", did he?).

Another possibility is the Japanese side tries to play down the accusation by shifting it to the pilot instead.

I'm not pretending to be an insider or anything but Chinese armed forces are rather renowned for their iron discipline. Was it on the news last year PLA sodiers were ordered to parachute into the earthquake zone far below the safety height & suffered a few casualties for that?
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I doubt it if the japanese can tapped into the radio communication so easily. isn't radio communication encrypted or using changing frequency to prevent eave dropping?
 
siegecrossbow

siegecrossbow

General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Hendrik_2000 said:
I doubt it if the japanese can tapped into the radio communication so easily. isn't radio communication encrypted or using changing frequency to prevent eave dropping?
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Guess that would be further proof of Japanese Journalistic sensationalism. Did they happen to have a copy of the radio communications or were they just fantasizing the incident?
 
X

xywdx

Junior Member
The Japanese reaction is a laugh to say the least.
The Chinese Helicopter was merely conducting some exercises on international waters within 4 km of it's mother ship, why is that a problem?
If I acted like the Japanese in day to day matters, I would be complaining that all the cars on the street got too close to me.

Japanese have been known to be far more reckless in sea encounters, for example in one Diaoyu island instance they approached Taiwan ships close enough to attack the Taiwanese crew with high pressure water hoses.
 
bladerunner

bladerunner

Banned Idiot
Engineer said:
If you are referring to my post with regards to bladerunner, he has a long history and reputation for criticizing China at every possible instance and turns every single thread he touches into some political debate. I am simply making an observation.
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You are factually incorrect and being inconsistent as ever.

As it so happens this thread, by the nature of the topic, contains undertones of a political nature all of its own. Many of the threads I participate in are of a similar mould and had also gone political before my participation in the thread.
Sure over the years I've had a critical viewpoint on matters concerning China in things such as Predatory Trade Practices, IPT, , Rule of Law, Poor Quality Products, Enviromental Degradation, Covert and Overt acquisitions of many a nature to name a few. The cases against China in the given eg's in most instances has been more than proven from third party sources. As Jantxv said, this is a global forum and one is not required to pander to Chinese sentiments nor denigrate them.


@ Jantxv
There is definitely a double standard on this forum. Apparently, if a poster disagrees with the "motherland/fatherland/whatever" you are instantly labeled a "anti china/westerner/imperialist/white/etc" and ganged up on.
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No worrys, it's all water off a duck's back. (Cheers)
 
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rhino123

rhino123

Pencil Pusher
VIP Professional
bladerunner said:
You are factually incorrect and being inconsistent as ever.

As it so happens this thread by its own nature contains undertones of a political nature, with or without my contribution, and many of the threads I participate in are of a similar mould and had also gone political before my entrance to the thread.
Over the years I've had a critical viewpoint on matters concerning China in things such as Predatory Trade Practices, IPT, , Rule of Law, Poor Quality Products, Enviromental Degradation, Covert and Overt acquisitions of many a nature to name a few. The cases against China in the given eg's in most instances has been more than proven from third party sources. As Jantxv said, this is a global forum and one is not required to pander to Chinese sentiments nor denigrate them.
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Yes. This is an international forum and everyone could have their own view of whatever topic it is. However, there is also this saying that we do not make assumptions and stuff like that up (not meaning you bladerunner.). And we have to be a responsible party when posting comments, and not just shoot ones mouth off and giving examples without fully telling the whole story behind that examples.

What we should do is stay to the facts of things and discuss within that area. Of course you could have your own opinion, criticism of china etc, as long as all these falls within the realm of reality and facts. And whatever claims one should have should also be supported by references and stuff like that.

Of course this is not against any particular member of the forum. Just me shooting my mouth off.
 
solarz

solarz

Brigadier
jantxv said:
There is definitely a double standard on this forum. Apparently, if a poster disagrees with the "motherland/fatherland/whatever" you are instantly labeled a "anti china/westerner/imperialist/white/etc" and ganged up on.

Don't let the "SinoDefenceForum" become a "Thug-O-cracy" in the defense forum circles. It looks really bad when so-called "senior members" violate their own rules.
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That's ridiculous. When you post crap arguments, you're gonna get shot down. Don't try to play the victim and claim there's a bias against you when you can't support your own arguments.
 
S

s002wjh

Junior Member
Hendrik_2000 said:
Not the same case. Nobody know what is the circumstance. It could be chance encounter or actually shadowing the Kitty hawk to make a point but the Chinese submarine did surface to announced it present, show the flag then leave!

Japanese shadow the fleet all along in High Sea where Japan has no jurisdiction and no business whatsoever!
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you just try to justify chinese shadow the kitty hawk vs japan case is not the same, but we all know its same things. as i recall the sub was also near japan water.

if chinese navy was in international water, japanese navy was also in international i don't see whats wrong with it. since chinese did the same with other countries. I'm sure chinese navy know japan was following them.
 
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