China Flanker thread

[crobato]

While likely it was a mistake and that irst will be on the same place as su-27
has it, wing root mounted irst is actually a very good placement. Coupled with laser rangefinder and marker unit, from there it can be used for laser designation of targets on the ground. And since it would be a bit off from the body of the plane, it would have decent lateral coverage as well.

I think the arrow to the wings are just an artist mistake.

Wing root IRST isn't a good place because you cannot cover the other side.

 

[tphuang]

I got this from msg'ing gf0021-aust

But. I suspect that its actually more of a planar phased array than a normal AESA config.

The shape tends to lend itself towards a side array much like what you'd find on a USAF Rivet Joint ELINT platform rather than an AWACs.

The title of the product is just "Low sidelobe antennas". Which doesn't mean anything to me.
Feng

that serves to reinforce my prev comment. It is for a side scanning elint aircraft. hence my reference to being a planar array similar to the US Rivet Joint.

regards

gary

I did a little search on RC-135 Rivet and it seems to me that radar could be for the Y-8 ECM craft with the side-scanning radar.

 

[crobato]

according to worldairpower journal,early variant of MIG-29 and SU-27 IRST do not adapt modern focal plane array.but Chinese version designated Kuang Hong-1 use gen-3 IIR focal plane array detector.giving the detection range 3~3 half time detection range over SU-27SK IRST.

China still imported the OLS-30/31E/52h IRST for J-11 production according to KANWA. This is the same IRST used on the MKK, MKI and Su-35. It has at least double the range of the OLS-27 used on the Su-27 and you can use it to laser target designate when the plane is at a dive.

But my guess is that these were for the J-11 and J-11A production and ends there. Compared to the standard Su-27S, J-11 upgrade is minor, a higher payload, an R-77 capability upgrade, and a better IRST.

Since China declined the SKM upgrades despite she funded for it, whether older Su-27SKs and J-11s will be upgraded to J-11B standards remain to be seen. While the AL-31F engines may be retained and upgraded, all the avionics can be changed during the overhaul period.

 

[crobato]

Thanks crobato but on that last pic the one posted on centurychina what's the name of the radar ??? Do you have the details

No name, though previously it is believed that KLJ-4 was the designation applied to it. KLJ-1 was for the J-8II, KLJ-3 for the J-10 and KLJ-2 I don't know who. However, these designations appear to have been superceded since FI has suggested KLJ-7 is now for the J-10, which implies a radar upgrade since the plane went into service, and KLJ-1, also known as Type 1471 in PLAAF terms, has been superceded by Type 1492, but the KLJ designation of the latter remains unknown.

So KLJ-4 may be an obsolete designation and the current one remains unknown for the moment.

 

[mehdi]

Seems that the PLAAF is very keen on the J-11B program. All made in China that very interesting news and how about the export prospects of this plane. I heard that China may export this plane to Pakistan for a HiLo combination of J-11B and JF-17/J-10.

 

[crobato]

I don't really think the J-11B is up for export as part of contract obligations with Sukhoi, and I never heard Pakistan being interested on the J-11s or anyone for that matter.

 

[mehdi]

Basically it was on some Pakistani forum that the idea was circulated. It's origin was what fighter aircraft Pakistan should have to counter that of the Indian Su-30MKI. It's clear that the JF-17 role is not intended for that. It's mainly an effort to produce a cheap advanced aircraft to replace those in its airforce. It was not developed to replace the F-16,that's false as now Pakistan has allocated money to buy more F-16 and the necessary avionics to upgrade those already in it's inventory.

Secondly the J-11B was the only aircraft they could get. Who else apart China could help them. The other aircraft that was mentioned was the Rafale and I seriously doubt that France would sell this advanced fighter to Pakistan and risk their relation with India being totally alienated.

It's unclear why you said that China was under contract obligations. If you see the timeline of the Chinese military you would many cases where China co-produced aircraft reverse engineered it and sold it to other countries without the Soviet consent.

 

[crobato]

The Soviet Union and today's Russia are not the same thing. One is Communist and the other is actually Capitalistic.

The Communist believe that everything belongs to the Proletariat and so no one actually owns anything including IP, and you are free to take anyone else and proliferate it as you wish as long as it is for the benefit of the proletariat. Like the AK-47.

Modern Russia however runs like a business. It runs on contracts, intellectual property rights, checks and letter of credit. Sukhoi would not allow the Chinese such export because it would compete with Sukhoi's own products. Not to mention second export has the possibility of harming Russia's relations with other countries which it has no intention to. Particularly with India.

I don't think J-11B is still a direct match to the MKI spec to spec although it would narrow the gap considerably. It is still a best a modernized Su-27, while the MKI has TVC and electronic scanning radar. The MKI also a few years more advantage when it comes to platform maturity.

If I were to pick, Pakistan's best option is the J-10 if you were to go against the MKI one on one. Both are extremely maneuverable, the MKI might have an advantage in lower speeds but delta-canard design tends to be very efficient at high subsonic to supersonic speeds. So if you're looking at fights in that speed regime, this is the ticket.

 

[mehdi]

Firstly I would comment on the quote that the Indian Su-30MKI is so better off that a Chinese J-11B. I don't want any country bashing going on. Indian's aircraft is good and Chinese aircraft are also good.

For the J-11B once it gets WS-10A with TVC in the future and an upgraded version of the engine that will keep in on par with the Su-30MKI.

Then for the avionics China will likely also put an AESA radar on the J-11B as well as increase the level of composites and a new range of PGM as well as improved versions of the PL-12 AAM.

Then we can talk about who is better or worst.

 

[crobato]

But all this ain't going to happen now, and a J-11 with WS-10A with TVC and AESA is still some years off, while the MKI has been around since 2003. And even then, I don't think China will export the J-11 in any form or variant.