China Flanker Thread II

[siegecrossbow]

The Russian Market has already lose the Chinese military market but bilateral ties are still strong and commercial dependant on each other are still important.

Russian authority may close one eye on military areas as commercial economic benefit outweight militaries industries. Plus Putin is very pro-Chinese. He knows keeping China as close allies is important to check USA.
He decided to risk the woes of Indian by approving RD-93 engines to China and continue selling of AL-31F engines.

For now Russia does not have to worry about India since India is still very much dependent upon Russian arms (Su-30 mki and Mig-29). Besides I am sure that banning RD-93 will anger the Chinese and Pakistanis since JF-17 is a ready to go aircraft. It is also possible that the withdraw of RD-93 (a bit of fantasizing here) might spur the development of the Chinese WS-13 and I really don't think that the Russians would want to see that happen (loosing huge market in China and possibly facing export competition).

 

[Lion]

For now Russia does not have to worry about India since India is still very much dependent upon Russian arms (Su-30 mki and Mig-29). Besides I am sure that banning RD-93 will anger the Chinese and Pakistanis since JF-17 is a ready to go aircraft. It is also possible that the withdraw of RD-93 (a bit of fantasizing here) might spur the development of the Chinese WS-13 and I really don't think that the Russians would want to see that happen (loosing huge market in China and possibly facing export competition).

I don't see how banning of RD-93 engines to China will spur WS-13 development. With or without,WS-13 engines development will still go ahead asap. But if RD-93 engines sales stop, it will hurt FC-1 sales but not for long.

I agree with what you say banning RD-93 will anger Chinese side and China will not stand in same line with Russia regarding against USA and may even affect commercial cooperation.

 

[In4ser]

Delete this

 

[siegecrossbow]

I don't see how banning of RD-93 engines to China will spur WS-13 development. With or without,WS-13 engines development will still go ahead asap. But if RD-93 engines sales stop, it will hurt FC-1 sales but not for long.

I agree with what you say banning RD-93 will anger Chinese side and China will not stand in same line with Russia regarding against USA and may even affect commercial cooperation.

Well banning RD-93 will spur China on with engine development since the need for a replacement will be more urgent. Pakistan is already on its way to build a fleet of FC-1s and can you imagine how pissed its air force will be when the Chinese contractors tell them that oops, the Russians banned engine sales and our WS-13 isn't mature enough yet. This will also have negative impacts on potential sales to other nations since the lack of engine is a very reliability issue, to say the least.

Who knows. Perhaps a Russian ban will benefit the Chinese aviation industry on the long run. Either way we know that right now the ban would probably hurt Russia worse than China.

 

[mkhan]

Well banning RD-93 will spur China on with engine development since the need for a replacement will be more urgent. Pakistan is already on its way to build a fleet of FC-1s and can you imagine how pissed its air force will be when the Chinese contractors tell them that oops, the Russians banned engine sales and our WS-13 isn't mature enough yet. This will also have negative impacts on potential sales to other nations since the lack of engine is a very reliability issue, to say the least.

Who knows. Perhaps a Russian ban will benefit the Chinese aviation industry on the long run. Either way we know that right now the ban would probably hurt Russia worse than China.

I seriously doubt that PAF being pissed is going to make the engine development in China any more urgent than it already is. China already seems to be doing everything it can to develop domestic engines., while filling the gap with Russian engines. A ban on russian engines will simply mean that they wont have a stop-gap engine available until the domestic ones come online.
Science and research is not like manual labor. Throwing 5 times more people at the problem will not bring 5 times faster results. The new engine will take as long as it will take, whether russia bans engine sales or not.

 

[xywdx]

I seriously doubt that PAF being pissed is going to make the engine development in China any more urgent than it already is. China already seems to be doing everything it can to develop domestic engines., while filling the gap with Russian engines. A ban on russian engines will simply mean that they wont have a stop-gap engine available until the domestic ones come online.
Science and research is not like manual labor. Throwing 5 times more people at the problem will not bring 5 times faster results. The new engine will take as long as it will take, whether russia bans engine sales or not.

That's not actually correct, China is currently taking its sweet time in developing engines.
They tend to research and develop a relative mature platform, then decide there are definitely areas to improve, and so they move on to more research without production.
In this way the cost of starting production of an equally capable engine as RD-93 is deemed to be higher than just buying it off of Russia.
If China doesn't have access to RD-93 then they will focus more on producing available models, rather than researching more advanced models.

Besides, what does Russia have to gain by not selling the engines?
They will lose profits and piss off a powerful neighbour, I don't think anyone in their right mind will want to do this.

 

[Quickie]

I seriously doubt that PAF being pissed is going to make the engine development in China any more urgent than it already is. China already seems to be doing everything it can to develop domestic engines., while filling the gap with Russian engines. A ban on russian engines will simply mean that they wont have a stop-gap engine available until the domestic ones come online.
Science and research is not like manual labor. Throwing 5 times more people at the problem will not bring 5 times faster results. The new engine will take as long as it will take, whether russia bans engine sales or not.

You're right that R & D work is not like labour intensive project work. Even so, investing more into it like hiring more researchers and builting more research facilities will definitely help. The only difference with research work is that how the work will progress and at what pace is not so clear cut as project work. But with more effort put into it, the chances of an earlier breakthrough is going to improve.

 

[siegecrossbow]

You're right that R & D work is not like labour intensive project work. Even so, investing more into it like hiring more researchers and builting more research facilities will definitely help. The only difference with research work is that how the work will progress and at what pace is not so clear cut as project work. But with more effort put into it, the chances of an earlier breakthrough is going to improve.

That was my point. Thank you for clarifying it .

 

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Can anyone shine some light on what one commentor suggests could be rust on the canopy. I can't believe it is.

 

[maozedong]

Hi! how are you,friends.
J-11s already has been deployed to PLAAF 33nd division, above photos show that the J-11 fighters training in Tibit.