China Flanker Thread II

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L

Lion

Senior Member
A.Man said:
China Purchases Su-35's-The Russian Side Story:

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... ers-china-indonesia

红字部分是说"许其亮升职军委副主席之后，支持了PLA空军的购买愿望，并安排了采购经费。"

More Sukhoi Fighters for China, Indonesia
AIN Defense Perspective » February 22, 2013

by Vladimir Karnozov

China will receive an unspecified number of Sukhoi Su-35 fighters from the Russian production line. (Photo: Vladimir Karnozov)
February 22, 2013, 12:20 PM

Top Russian officials have confirmed sales deals with China for the Sukhoi Su-35 and with Indonesia on an additional quantity of Su-30MK2 multirole fighters.

Vyacheslav Dzirkaln, deputy director at Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, told journalists attending the IDEX 2013 exhibition in Abu Dhabi that Russian defense minister Sergei Choigu signed an intergovernmental agreement on the Su-35 with China in January. Dzirkaln, who headed the Russian delegation to the arms show, added that the work on firm contract is ongoing “in a planned manner” as the sides are “detailing” delivery terms. “There will be direct shipments only, not license production,” he clarified.

Furthermore, a member in the Russian delegation told journalists that the delay with the Su-35 deal was due in part to the reshuffle at the top of the Chinese military command following the 18th Communist Party Council in November. He suggested that the promotion of ex-PLAAF commander (2007-2012) Xu Quiliang to the Central Military Commission (CMC) was a decisive move in support of the air force’s wish-list and subsequent allocation of hard currency for it.China last purchased fighters from Russia in 2004, adding 24 Su-30MK2s to bring the grand total of Flanker-series aircraft to 283.

Earlier this month, another top Russian official confirmed that Indonesia is placing a firm order for six more Sukhoi Su-30MK2 two-seaters. Anatoly Isaikin, director general at weapon-sales agency Rosoboronexport, told the media that the deal also includes an unspecified number of Saturn AL31F engines and other equipment. The Indonesian air force already operates five Su-27SK /SKM single-seat and five Su-30MKK/MK2 twin-seat fighters.

Indonesia has been negotiating for additional Sukhoi jets since at least 2010. At that time, the country’s then-defense minister voiced Jakarta’s ultimate intent to form 10 Sukhoi fighter squadrons comprising 180 aircraft within the next 15 to 20 years. Although in late 2011 the negotiators came to terms on the main parameters of the deal–$470 million for six airplanes–the talks were prolonged over spare engines, maintenance tools and munitions.

Then, after a Sukhoi Superjet on a sales-promotion tour collided with Mount Salak on May 9, 2012, reports in the Indonesian media suggested that the country’s defense ministry was reconsidering the option of taking more Lockheed Martin F-16As instead of the Russian fighters.

Indonesian officials had previously indicated several times that they viewed pre-owned F-16s as an alternative to the longer-term investment in the Su-30MK2s. To facilitate further sales to Jakarta, the Kremlin-controlled VEB bank provided a seven-year export credit to the Indonesian finance ministry worth $399.5 million for the purchase of aviation equipment.
Click to expand...

* yawn *.......

Why is it always the Russian side? Can they come up with something new?
 
M

Munir

Banned Idiot
Lion said:
* yawn *.......

Why is it always the Russian side? Can they come up with something new?
Click to expand...

1. USA blocked spare parts in the past when Indonesia did not obey
2. UK blocked spare parts and planes when Indonesia did not obey USA

Same with Pakistan...
Every time war broke out the western powers stopped parts... They even blocked payed F16's when Pak exploded nukes. Hence JF17. Hence J10 (rather then lots of blovk 52). Hence J31 instead of anything western.
 
M

Munir

Banned Idiot
Well, You do not want to offend the "free" offer of second hand F16's (with rather expensive upgrade) from the USA... So instead of saying "NO" you just buy other item and let the news "leak"?
 
D

delft

Brigadier
A.Man said:
China Purchases Su-35's-The Russian Side Story:

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!
... ers-china-indonesia

红字部分是说"许其亮升职军委副主席之后，支持了PLA空军的购买愿望，并安排了采购经费。"

More Sukhoi Fighters for China, Indonesia
AIN Defense Perspective » February 22, 2013

by Vladimir Karnozov

China will receive an unspecified number of Sukhoi Su-35 fighters from the Russian production line. (Photo: Vladimir Karnozov)
February 22, 2013, 12:20 PM

Top Russian officials have confirmed sales deals with China for the Sukhoi Su-35 and with Indonesia on an additional quantity of Su-30MK2 multirole fighters.

Vyacheslav Dzirkaln, deputy director at Russia’s Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, told journalists attending the IDEX 2013 exhibition in Abu Dhabi that Russian defense minister Sergei Choigu signed an intergovernmental agreement on the Su-35 with China in January. Dzirkaln, who headed the Russian delegation to the arms show, added that the work on firm contract is ongoing “in a planned manner” as the sides are “detailing” delivery terms. “There will be direct shipments only, not license production,” he clarified.

Furthermore, a member in the Russian delegation told journalists that the delay with the Su-35 deal was due in part to the reshuffle at the top of the Chinese military command following the 18th Communist Party Council in November. He suggested that the promotion of ex-PLAAF commander (2007-2012) Xu Quiliang to the Central Military Commission (CMC) was a decisive move in support of the air force’s wish-list and subsequent allocation of hard currency for it.China last purchased fighters from Russia in 2004, adding 24 Su-30MK2s to bring the grand total of Flanker-series aircraft to 283.

Earlier this month, another top Russian official confirmed that Indonesia is placing a firm order for six more Sukhoi Su-30MK2 two-seaters. Anatoly Isaikin, director general at weapon-sales agency Rosoboronexport, told the media that the deal also includes an unspecified number of Saturn AL31F engines and other equipment. The Indonesian air force already operates five Su-27SK /SKM single-seat and five Su-30MKK/MK2 twin-seat fighters.

Indonesia has been negotiating for additional Sukhoi jets since at least 2010. At that time, the country’s then-defense minister voiced Jakarta’s ultimate intent to form 10 Sukhoi fighter squadrons comprising 180 aircraft within the next 15 to 20 years. Although in late 2011 the negotiators came to terms on the main parameters of the deal–$470 million for six airplanes–the talks were prolonged over spare engines, maintenance tools and munitions.

Then, after a Sukhoi Superjet on a sales-promotion tour collided with Mount Salak on May 9, 2012, reports in the Indonesian media suggested that the country’s defense ministry was reconsidering the option of taking more Lockheed Martin F-16As instead of the Russian fighters.

Indonesian officials had previously indicated several times that they viewed pre-owned F-16s as an alternative to the longer-term investment in the Su-30MK2s. To facilitate further sales to Jakarta, the Kremlin-controlled VEB bank provided a seven-year export credit to the Indonesian finance ministry worth $399.5 million for the purchase of aviation equipment.
Click to expand...
What does he mean by "hard currency"? The only hard currency still being used on any scale is the Maria Theresa thaler, first struck in 1741, last struck in 1962:
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. I don't think these will ever be used to pay for jet aircraft.
There are of course gold coins like the Kruger Rand and its Canadian imitation but these are not official coins for payment and I don't expect to see them used in trade.

The US dollar ceased to be a hard currency, i.e. convertible into gold at a stated price ( that was $35 per troy ounce ), in 1971. At a current price of about $1500 per try ounce that signals an inflation of more than 400% in 42 years.
 
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vesicles

vesicles

Colonel
Munir said:
Well, You do not want to offend the "free" offer of second hand F16's (with rather expensive upgrade) from the USA... So instead of saying "NO" you just buy other item and let the news "leak"?
Click to expand...

I think that he meant was it's always the Russians who unilaterally leaks out the info about China buying stuff from them. The Chinese, the buyer, never says anything and never actually buys anything (since 2004, as indicated in the article)...
 
andyhugfan

andyhugfan

Banned Idiot
PLAAF should buy those su-35's. They are more advanced than the j-11b and the engines would provide a lot of know-how. I would take a su-35bm over a j-20 or j-31 anyday.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
andyhugfan said:
PLAAF should buy those su-35's. They are more advanced than the j-11b and the engines would provide a lot of know-how. I would take a su-35bm over a j-20 or j-31 anyday.
Click to expand...

In that case I hope the Su35s have awesome ejection seats, because you are going to need it.

Even trying to claim the Su35 is better than the J11B is baseless since no-one here can say with any degree of certainty what sort of radar, avionics or EW performance the J11B has. The only area where the Su35 might be better is in terms of manoeuvrability because of the more powerful engines and airframe refinements. But saying that, the J11B also has its fair share of airframe refinements itself, so the differents might not be that great. So how can you definitively say X is better than Y when you don't even know how good Y is?

To suggest that the Su35 is better than the J20 or J31, which are a full generation ahead is pure nonsense and just shows up how little you know about modern fighters.
 
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