This China buying Su-35 is like the Friday 13th horror movie series, it NEVER dies and go away. It always keep coming back again and again. Even a novice like me think it doesn't make any sense for China to buy the Su-35 when they have so many of their own aircraft programs going on right now at the same time! I'm predicting that when the J-20 and J-31 officially enters service with the PLAAF we would still hear reports stating China is going to buy the Su-35!
China Flanker Thread II
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MiG-29
Banned Idiot
The target is 3 square meters detected at 400km away, that is russian information given for Irbis.
Su-35 has a 90km IRST range of detection
[video=youtube;p8C06dHhlXc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8C06dHhlXc[/video]
The performance increase in the Irbis-E is commensurate with the increased transmitter rating, and NIIP claim a detection range for a closing 3 square metre coaltitude target of 190 - 215 NMI (350-400 km), and the ability to detect a closing 0.01 square metre target at ~50 NMI (90 km). In Track While Scan (TWS) mode the radar can handle 30 targets simultaneously
source
[video=youtube;ZFY0VWGGFtM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFY0VWGGFtM[/video]
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Are you claiming that the posters on this thread are ignorants ??
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
No, i did not claim that, i simply meant especulation is always especulation and in some cases is common you only get especulation
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
In terms of engine and radar the Su-35 is very advanced, but to say it is better than J-20, well here i would say, it is very difficult it might be so good.
In kinematics, is possible Su-35S armed with a few AAM and at light weight might be better in terms of STR and ITR.
In stealth, well that is not possible, it is in terms of stealth a generation behind.
Electronics, well it is possible it is even with J-20.
Supercruise, very likely superior.
Post-stall capability, undoutedly superior to both J-20 and J-31
So if you want to say it is better, i guess not, but in some areas it might be better than J-20 or J-31 like supercruise, agility, even perhaps in electronics, radar....even or slightly superior but i guess it is more or less even.
Engine, definitively ahead at least now with J-31, J-20 who knows.
Better than J-11B, i guess yes since it is faster in supercruise and has an increased post-stall capability.
Worthed to buy, who knows but perhaps yes just for the engine and Irbis.
Irbis contrary to what people think is a very advanced phased array radar.
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China is still operating a number of original Su-27 from Russia, plus the ammunitions. PLAAF may just use the new Su-35 to replace an old squadron of them. The only new challenge is the engine
plawolf
Lieutenant General
It is unclear how many of the original Su27SKs are still in services since some had already been retired.
Those birds are over 20 years old now, even if they are still in service, they would have had a MLU by now, and since the PLAAF rejected the Russian offered upgrade options, any upgrade would have been done by Chinese companies, and almost certainly would have involved replacing the old Russian kit with Chinese gear. The J11 programme offers readily available and perfectly suited radar and avionics upgrade options that are about as 'plug and play' as you could reasonably hope to get.
In terms of training, logistics and operational needs, it also makes perfect sense to upgrade the old SKs to at least later Blk J11A standards in radar and avionics so that they would share the same weapons and sensor options, as the vast majority of the PLAAF flanker fleet and can network seamlessly with other new Chinese assets. Reducing the logistics burden and complexity as well as streamlining training and integration and compatibility with the rest of the PLAAF assets such as AWACS, dedicated EW assets, as well as naval and land based assets.
It is funny you mentioned munitions, because there have been no reported new purchases of Russian munitions by the PLA for a very long time now, which further supports the theory that China is streamlining and consolidating away from the originally supplied Russian gear.
With the originally purchased Russian munitions stocks being steadily run down as well as with newer and usually better Chinese options becoming available, which are also cheaper than imported Russian munitions, it really makes no sense for the PLAAF to prolong it's association with Russian weapons any longer than it's current munitions stocks lasts.
I think that the only reason for the PLAAF to not systematically upgrade all it's existing SK and MKK, MK2 aircraft with Chinese radars and avionics is so they can use up what Russian munitions they had purchased already, and that the aircraft upgrade schedule would have been drawn up so that more and more planes move away from the original Russian supplied systems to use newer domestic equipment as the existing munitions stocks are gradually run down. Depending on how long those munitions stock lasts, it may also be possible that the original Russian supplied aircraft might not be upgraded at all, and will just be retired as their munitions run out. That would explain the J16, assuming the PLAAF even goes for it instead of just replacing the MKKs with JH7As.
Even just the suggestion if having the Su35 use existing Russian munitions stocks is a little backwards, since a plane is only as good as the weapons it carry. In that respect, it would make far more sense to buy the new weapons for the Su35 for the existing PLAAF flankers that still has Russian radars and avionics than to buy a brand new aircraft and limit it to 10, 20 year old weapons.
As I said, there is absolutely no sense in fielding Su35s operationally as far as the Chinese are concerned. If China does buy Su35s, and that is a giant 'if', it will be a small batch of aircraft that will likely spend all of their lives at Yangling and/or play acting as 'Blue Force' aggressors. But that is a huge amount of money to spend for little to no operational impact, so the deal would only make sense for China if they were effectively getting the Su35s for little or nothing, like aircraft in lieu of debts that would otherwise be written off.
Su-35 electronics will undoubtedly be behind J-20s, it is after all, a 4.5 gen fighter. You also need to take into account the huge superiority of China's electronic industry compared to Russia's in both the civil and military sector. As for post-stall capability, why would you even WANT to stall a plane? That just makes you a sitting duck with no airspeed.
For supercruise, production J-20's will be equipped with more powerful engines, not to mention its airframe is inherently slim and streamlined; Su-35 will most likely have inferior supercruise capabilities against production J-20's.
As for Irbis radar, no one said it wasn't advanced, so shut it with that "contrary to what people think" snuff. It's simply not AS advanced as AESA's, which J-10B's are photographed most likely to have. China has numerous experience in making AESA's and it also has the money to devote to continued research. With the new introductions of the new PAR's on the 052D, one would only expect the PLAAF to have similar technology.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
IRBIS is avery advanced radar, is a phased array, basicly is electronic scaning, post stall, yes is a great advantage only people who think it does not give extra safety, an extra touch of stealth and an advantage in combat think post stall is not needed, usually those who claim that defend fighters without TVC nozzles and with no ability in their engines to do it, F-22 has it, it says all.
As electronics, i say very likely even, because Pogyosan says Su-35S has 5th generation avionics, in fact Pogyosan said that Su-27 and Su-35 are two different machines.
Su-35`s only 4th generation trait is it has not a faceted airframe and no internal.
And perhaps you do not know a fact, big disadvantage of having internal weapons bays is increased cross section, a fighter of the 4th generation has drop tanks, can be armed lightly, Eurofighter`s main advantage was if lightly armed it can be as good in some aspects to F-22.
In fact while internal weapons bay reduce drag, increased cross section increases drag.
Fouth generation fighters increase drag too carrying weapons externally, but they can get rid of them easily.
The main advantage of internal wepons bays is stealth
If you do not beleive that seach why F-35 only is compared to F-16 or Eurofighter in normal combat weight, F-35 has a much larger cross section that in a clean condition can not compete with F-16, in fact normally loaded F-35 has a equivalent configuration to an Eurofighter only if the Eurofighter is flying relatively highly loaded
In a dogfight, Su-35S has HMS, highly offbored missiles and TVC nozzles so do not discount on it.
In BVR it flies at supercruise and has a radar of very high density power that will by pure power density scan the skies.
Remember stealth means RCS, not invisible to radar, stealth fighters are LO not invisible, only LO, that means advances in radar render Stealth also very expensive and still you can detect it, and Su-35 like Rafale has IRST.
Stealth is a contradiction, to get it you spend a lot of money, the same to fight it is expensive
I do not know the speed of supercruise but to give you a detail Eurofighter is said to get Mach 1.4 with 4 AAM.
Su-35S probably is the same
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kwaigonegin
Colonel
At this point we really don;t know much about the J-20 other than is is obviously very stealthy (from front anyway).. that we know for a fact. Everything else is just pure speculation. SU-35 we know a little bit more but to simply say it is inferior in ALL aspect to the J-20 would not only be likely incorrect but very arrogant as well. I would say aside from the RCS an SU-35 is probably very comparable to J-20 in other areas of performance.
As to the electronics the SU-35 is very advanced. You cannot simply dismissed it as inferior just because the plane itself is based on a 1970's chassis.
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