China Flanker Thread II

[MiG-29]

Tell me more about how they can super-cruise and also tell me more about their stealthiness.

Supercruise is already an ability of Rafale, Eurofighter and Su-35.
Rafale has a very limited stealth treatment, Su-35 too has RAM applied.
However in air to air supercruise will be of capital importance.
However the 5th generation fighter is favor due to stealth, air to air combat is not always win by BVR combat, specially if you can not ID the enemy fighter, in close combat a 4th generation aircraft is as good as a 5th generation, also in close combat most fighters will detect F-22 or T-50.

The americans know that so they plan use F-15 in close combat and F-22 for BVR while the F-35 is used as an attack aircraft with secondary self defence capability.

Su-35 is planned to do that, get in close before T-50.

 

[MiG-29]

The J20's performance will not be affected much by carrying weapons since they will be stowed internally. A Su35 might be able to super cruise and pull fancy stunts clean, but hang a typical war load of missiles, pods and pylons on it and suddenly it ain't flying so sweetly.

Supercruise in Su-35 is not clean, it is armed, Rafale gets Mach 1.4 with 4 AAMs, if you can calculate a Su-35 will usually take off at 25 tonnes carrying 4AAMs and has 29000kg of thrust think that at combat weight the Su-35 has a very high TWR add the fact 117S has reduced comsuption of fuel.

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Does the Su-35 carry weapons during supercruise? yes it does like Rafale or Eurofighter.

What is the load of Su-35 in supercruise? how many weapons? it has not being disclosed, Rafale can carry 4 AAMs, same Eurofighter.

At combat weight, once some fuel has been spend the Thrust to weight ratio of Su-35 increases dramatically

That you can especulate perhaps 4 or 6 missiles out of 12 yes it is probable.

But can you assured J-20 does supercruise now?

 

[Air Force Brat]

Supercruise is already an ability of Rafale, Eurofighter and Su-35.
Rafale has a very limited stealth treatment, Su-35 too has RAM applied.
However in air to air supercruise will be of capital importance.
However the 5th generation fighter is favor due to stealth, air to air combat is not always win by BVR combat, specially if you can not ID the enemy fighter, in close combat a 4th generation aircraft is as good as a 5th generation, also in close combat most fighters will detect F-22 or T-50.

The americans know that so they plan use F-15 in close combat and F-22 for BVR while the F-35 is used as an attack aircraft with secondary self defence capability.

Su-35 is planned to do that, get in close before T-50.

Okay MIG, time to put out your pipe or whatever you're smoking little dude, The Americans nor the Russians are planning for fourth gen in WVR, nor is any fourth gen or proposed fifth gen superior to the F-22 in Kinemetic Performance up close and personal. While the helmet mounted sight is a game changer and they are working on one for the F-22, the F-22 will be in and gone, and you'll be saying "who?" The F-35s WVR performance will be severely degraded by her being a pooch in the A2A, sustained turn rate and acceleration downgraded will mean she spends way to much time trying to get in and get clear. While I am a big Flanker fan, the Su-35 with OVT will give it an advantage kinemetically, unless it is trying to engage fifth gens in which all of that is speculative, the J-20 and the J-31 will obviously have some advantage in L/O and possibly manueverability, since it is likely the J-10 will put it on the J-11 in WVR? And the missles are not OFF-Bored, but are capable of manuevering and defeating a target that is far Off Bore of the aircraft that launced the missle, hence off boresight targeting by the helmet mounted sight is a game changer. Your mis-use of the English language make some of your statements kind of bizarre, and while I often know what you're trying to say, it may not be clear to others. So please lets stick to what we know and leave all this wild speculation about F-15 being superior to the F-22 within visual range to the fairy tale crowd? Please? Brat

 

[jobjed]

Supercruise is already an ability of Rafale, Eurofighter and Su-35.
Rafale has a very limited stealth treatment, Su-35 too has RAM applied.
However in air to air supercruise will be of capital importance.
However the 5th generation fighter is favor due to stealth, air to air combat is not always win by BVR combat, specially if you can not ID the enemy fighter, in close combat a 4th generation aircraft is as good as a 5th generation, also in close combat most fighters will detect F-22 or T-50.

The americans know that so they plan use F-15 in close combat and F-22 for BVR while the F-35 is used as an attack aircraft with secondary self defence capability.

Su-35 is planned to do that, get in close before T-50.

Hey genius, read the post to which I replied to before posting. He said X-31 and F-15 ACTIVE, when have I EVER mentioned Su-35, Rafale, Eurofighter or F-22? Try another translation software; the one you're currently using is faulty.

 

[kwaigonegin]

Okay MIG, time to put out your pipe or whatever you're smoking little dude, The Americans nor the Russians are planning for fourth gen in WVR, nor is any fourth gen or proposed fifth gen superior to the F-22 in Kinemetic Performance up close and personal. While the helmet mounted sight is a game changer and they are working on one for the F-22, the F-22 will be in and gone, and you'll be saying "who?" The F-35s WVR performance will be severely degraded by her being a pooch in the A2A, sustained turn rate and acceleration downgraded will mean she spends way to much time trying to get in and get clear. While I am a big Flanker fan, the Su-35 with OVT will give it an advantage kinemetically, unless it is trying to engage fifth gens in which all of that is speculative, the J-20 and the J-31 will obviously have some advantage in L/O and possibly manueverability, since it is likely the J-10 will put it on the J-11 in WVR? And the missles are not OFF-Bored, but are capable of manuevering and defeating a target that is far Off Bore of the aircraft that launced the missle, hence off boresight targeting by the helmet mounted sight is a game changer. Your mis-use of the English language make some of your statements kind of bizarre, and while I often know what you're trying to say, it may not be clear to others. So please lets stick to what we know and leave all this wild speculation about F-15 being superior to the F-22 within visual range to the fairy tale crowd? Please? Brat

Brat, upon further reading I don't belief our dear friend Mig 29 is saying that F-15 is superior to the Raptor in WVR on a one for one comparison. I think what he is trying to say is that because of it's numerical superiority and because it's cheaper and proven in actual combat, the USAF may opt to use the Eagles against opponents WVR once the they have used the F-22 to 'clear' the way in BVR against a more sophisticated opponent. At least that's what I think he is intending to say. Basically a high-lo mix concept of aerial combat and ground strikes.

 

[MiG-29]

Okay MIG, time to put out your pipe or whatever you're smoking little dude, The Americans nor the Russians are planning for fourth gen in WVR, nor is any fourth gen or proposed fifth gen superior to the F-22 in Kinemetic Performance up close and personal. While the helmet mounted sight is a game changer and they are working on one for the F-22, the F-22 will be in and gone, and you'll be saying "who?" The F-35s WVR performance will be severely degraded by her being a pooch in the A2A, sustained turn rate and acceleration downgraded will mean she spends way to much time trying to get in and get clear. While I am a big Flanker fan, the Su-35 with OVT will give it an advantage kinemetically, unless it is trying to engage fifth gens in which all of that is speculative, the J-20 and the J-31 will obviously have some advantage in L/O and possibly manueverability, since it is likely the J-10 will put it on the J-11 in WVR? And the missles are not OFF-Bored, but are capable of manuevering and defeating a target that is far Off Bore of the aircraft that launced the missle, hence off boresight targeting by the helmet mounted sight is a game changer. Your mis-use of the English language make some of your statements kind of bizarre, and while I often know what you're trying to say, it may not be clear to others. So please lets stick to what we know and leave all this wild speculation about F-15 being superior to the F-22 within visual range to the fairy tale crowd? Please? Brat

Brat first let us focus, F-15 will be upgraded with AESA and HMS



The Air Force plans to retain 176 F-15Cs. Only two units—one at Kadena AB, Japan, and one at RAF Lakenheath in Britain—will serve with the active duty. Some 54 F-15Cs are on contract to be fitted with an AESA radar, and all F-15Cs are now fitted with the Joint Helmet Mounted Cuing System. The F-15Cs will also receive an IRST system to detect stealthy targets.
Like the F-15C, Andersen said the E models will get an AESA radar—the APG-82—plus all the other enhancements. Right now, helmet mounted sights are only funded for the front seat of the two-seat airplane, but ACC wants to fit backseaters with the JHMCS as well.

source

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See it is the air force magazine.

 

[antiterror13]

In that case I hope the Su35s have awesome ejection seats, because you are going to need it.

Even trying to claim the Su35 is better than the J11B is baseless since no-one here can say with any degree of certainty what sort of radar, avionics or EW performance the J11B has. The only area where the Su35 might be better is in terms of manoeuvrability because of the more powerful engines and airframe refinements. But saying that, the J11B also has its fair share of airframe refinements itself, so the differents might not be that great. So how can you definitively say X is better than Y when you don't even know how good Y is?

To suggest that the Su35 is better than the J20 or J31, which are a full generation ahead is pure nonsense and just shows up how little you know about modern fighters.

I think what he meant ... SU35 is better than J-11B, J-20 or J31 when they are on the ground and no pilot

 

[MiG-29]

I think what he meant ... SU35 is better than J-11B, J-20 or J31 when they are on the ground and no pilot

And no IRST and no 117S but once it has IRST systems and flies at supercruise you can see if you have a good IRST you can see this

What Su-35`s IRST system detects aircraft flying without afterburner at a range of 90km!

what! with an IRST you can see F-22s and J-20s and J-31s and even mighty T-50, we should get one of those 117S in order to scape from missiles-Said one general

What! the Russians claim to detect targets with their IRST 90 km aways! get us one IRST system for our F-15s may be that is the reason in red flag our F-15s can not see the F-22!
what! Irbis-E radar detects air targets with an absolute cross section of 3 m2 on a head-on course at a range of up to 400 km

source Sukhoi

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What!

Detection range of an aerial target without afterburning (head-on / rear detection range) km 50/90

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[Deino]

 

[Air Force Brat]

I gotta get me one of dem dare Chinese Flankers, I like them little itty bitty canards???? who woulda thunk it??????