China Flanker Thread II
- Thread starter sumdud
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Quickie
Colonel
Wrong. And, regarding the videos above, is all Russian news sources so inaccurate in their reporting?
Haven't you heard the news about the Chinese rebuilding the flanker engine including changing the fan blades to make them more reliable? This news came out direct from the mouth of Chinese officials and western observers quite some time back.
Proof of what? Are you seriously think anyone will take RT or CNN seriously on Chinese military matters? Those idiots didn't even believe the existence of a Chinese fifth gen project, they are just as reliable as the Russian media, wishful thinkers at best, outright liars IMO.
Engineer
Major
Whenever Russian media made some claims about Chinese military, the opposite of those claims would be the truth. Just like how all those claims about China is buying Su-35 turn out to be lies when China's department of defense finally fed up and stated the claims are false. So, the truth behind those claims about China being interested in the 117S engine is this: Russia probably offered to sale 117S and China rejected.
If China is only willing to buy 4 engines, it shows all China has no desire to equip such engine to its aircraft. None whatsoever. So, your claim that China wanting to buy the engines for J-11B is contradicted by your very own statement. In fact, whether the engines are AL-31F or the more advanced 117S, there is no needs for China to acquire any, since J-11B is already being equipped with WS-10A engines.
It doesn't matter whether Russia is willing to sale. The issue is China is not willing to buy.
If Russia is so ahead of China in aerospace technologies, Russia wouldn't be so wary about Chinese copying Russian products. In any case, licensing issue is only an excuse to rationalize why no Su-35 is being exported, so as to avoid admitting the reality that China has little interest in the aircraft.
MiG-29
Banned Idiot
Look i know you did not read the links i have provided otherwise you will know what Victor Mihailovich Chenkin thinks about WS-10.
To start i do not think you even know who is Victor Mihailovich Chepkin
В.М. Чепкин родился в 1933 году.
После окончания в 1957 году Московского авиационного института был направлен в Пермское моторостроительное КБ, где прошел путь от инженера-конструктора до главного конструктора. Под руководством П. Соловьева, он был главным конструктором выдающегося по своим параметрам двигателя "Д-30Ф6" для самого быстрого в мире истребителя-перехватчика "МиГ-31", способного летать со скоростью более 3000 км/ч.
В 1983 году Виктор Михайлович был назначен заместителем министра авиационной промышленности СССР по вопросам двигателестроения.
С августа 1984 года — генеральный конструктор — генеральный директор НПО "Сатурн" им. А. М. Люльки. Под его руководством успешно завершены конструкторско-доводочные работы и проведены государственные испытания турбореактивного двигателя "АЛ-31Ф". Виктор Михайлович возглавил работы по созданию турбореактивного двигателя пятого поколения "АЛ 41Ф" и модернизации "АЛ-31Ф".
this says he was born in 1933 worked for Perm engines on jet engine designs, later on the MiG-31`s engine D30F6, for Solovyov, worked as Chief designer in Saturn on the Al-41F.
So he is really a jet aircraft designer to give you an idea D-30F6 has a thrust yield of 15 tonnes, but he worked on other jet engines.
Китайский самолет — это точная копия нашего?
— Что касается двигателя, это не точная копия. Я его видел. Китайцы использовали и свои разработки, но на 70 процентов это наш "АЛ-31Ф", автоматика вся наша. Покупать лицензию на производство двигателя они не стали, лишь купили лицензию на ремонт двигателя (естественно со всеми чертежами). А поскольку ремонт и производство, по сути, очень близки, китайцы все тщательно изучили и самостоятельно освоили производство. В Китае очень грамотные инженеры, и то, что они освоят эту продукцию, у меня лично никаких сомнений не было. Поэтому выход у нас один — сделать лучше. И мы сделали двигатель "117С". Пусть теперь они за нами погоняются!
He does praise the Chinese engineers skills
in fact he says " В Китае очень грамотные инженеры, и то, что они освоят эту продукцию"
In China they have very competent engineers and they will master the production of jet engines
Что касается двигателя, это не точная копия. Я его видел. Китайцы использовали и свои разработки, но на 70 процентов это наш "АЛ-31Ф
he says yes WS-10 is not an exact copy of the Al-31 but the Chinese used Al-31 in the development of WS-10, in fact WS-10 is 70% our Al-31
This says the 117 engines increased the thrust of Al-31 20% without gaining weight
Накопленный таким образом за десять лет уникальнейший опыт мы опрокинули на модернизацию "АЛ-31Ф". В итоге родился двигатель "117". Даже простое приложение имеющихся наработок дало удивительный результат — тяга двигателя возросла с 12,5 тонн до 15. Не прибавив ни грамма веса, мы увеличили тягу на 20 процентов!
now you are just boasting without knowing, the Russians have improve Al-31 a great way beyond what China has
For that reason while J-11B might have higher thrust than J-11, the performance gains are not as high as Su-35 has over the original T-10S
Click here for link
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Engineer
Major
Victor Mihailovich Chenkin is not an authoritative on Chinese engines. He did not design the WS-10A and his claim of 70% AL-31F heritage has no basis in reality. It is common knowledge that , which uses the core from American's F-110 engine.
This is echoed by :
There are also substantial difference in design between AL-31F and WS-10A. AL-31F has 4 fan and 9 compressor stages, 1 high pressure and 1 low pressure turbine. F-110 and WS-10A both have 3 fan and 9 compressor stages, 1 high pressure and 2 low pressure turbines. Clearly, WS-10A is not 70% similar to AL-31F.
What this demonstrates is that Russian source has no credibility when talking about Chinese military technologies.
Russia can claim anything. These claims have never been verified by a third party source.
This shows you know nothing. .
Furthermore, it does not matter how the Russian are improving the AL-31F, as China is no longer using Russian engine on its new built fighters. China is not going to buy the Su-35 or 117S engine, and excuses are not going to alter such fact.
how can this guy know that ? unless he got acess to the chinese aircraft engine projects. I very much doubt that china would allow any foreigner acess to that information.
There were talk that the first batch of J-10B would use AL-31. And we dont know for sure what is J-20´s engine.
Engineer
Major
The potential of using AL-31FN would only be limited to the first batch, similar to the case with J-11B. There is no question that J-10B will eventually use WS-10A.
LMAO, I didn't know AL31 has a core from F101/CFM56.
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