China Flanker Thread II

[Engineer]

why do not you do this


Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov claims he was asked by China to sell to the chinese 117s engines


Victor Mihailovich Chepkin, designer of 117 and 117S claims WS-10 used technology from Al-31 and the WS-10 is not in the class of 117 and 117S and Russia has Type 30 which already flew on T-50.


You can call them liars if you want, or you can say they are saying the truth, that is up to you.

According to Russia fanboy's fantasy, China wants the Su-35 to get the 117S engines. Yet, China isn't buying the Su-35, showing the country does not want the aircraft nor has desire for the engine.

China refutes rumor on Su-35 purchase

"RusNEWS.CN reports (3-09-12 Beijing time): Reporter Alexi Yafmov reports: The Chinese Department of defence revealed to RusNews that reports by the Russian media regarding the signing of a 48 Su-35 fighter contract between China and Russia are inaccurate.

The Chinese Department of Defense clarified that : "In recent years, China maintained close strategic partnership with Russia and successfully cooperated in numerous domains. Sino-Russian military cooperation is an important part of Sino-Russian strategic partnership that is being carried out smoothly and has continuously yielded results. Reports that "China and Russia agreed on the purchase on 48 Su-35 fighters, however, have no factual basis.

On March 6th, Russian newspaper Kommersant quoted a Russian military insider when supposedly said that China and Russia agreed to sign a contract which will supply the Chinese military with 48 Su-35 fighters. The contract would have a net worth of 4.0 billion dollars."

Translation Courtesy of siegecrossbow.

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is the original link.

 

[MiG-29]

Gent, really, let's stick to the topic of China Flanker, shall we? Great plane, but China won't buy. End of story. Let's move on!

okay let us do it, from then i will move to the thread China and Su-35 thread, but a point, let us say time will tell

 

[AssassinsMace]

that is not true, the Russians never claim they sold 117S to China, that is a big lie of you, the Russians say J-20 has subsystems from Russia here i quote Russia today




As of now, the J-20 flies with two Russian AL-31F jet engines it borrowed from the Russian Su-27 fighter jet that entered Chinese service in the mid-1980s.

China also tried to put engines of their own on a second test J-20 vehicle, but the copycat of the Soviet engine AL-31F made by China is not in the same league as the Russian analogue for reliability and durability.
The real problem is both AL-31F and Chinese version are engines of the previous generation

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they never say 117 was sold


you are just claiming a rumour that was early in the J-20`s disclosure early days that J-20 might had 117s, this was a internet forum rumour, not something Russia claimed　and definitivly
not the words by the Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov

here is the proof

[video=youtube;gpifTCL7D7A]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpifTCL7D7A&feature=relmfu[/video]

something even echoed by the americans

[video=youtube;EqdZWl3oPRs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqdZWl3oPRs&feature=related[/video]

Yeah and the whole story that Russia stop selling to China because of IP theft was started by Pinkov from Kanwa that all the news media including Russian followed.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Funny how this story always comes at the heels of Russia failing to sell its fighters to someone else. India choosing the Rafale over anything the Russians had to offer and now recently with the Indonesians. Whatever reason behind it must've been a huge ego blow. So the only reason why this story keeps showing up and always with a different excuse on why it falls apart is to keep Russians fighters relevant. It's not good when potential customers choose someone else in the end no matter the reason. The idea that stealing is at the center of making or breaking the deal is because they have to make it look like there's something valuable worth stealing. Also you have to account that as Russia loses more customers to the West, more and more China is their competitor with what's left. It's a great way to advertise your products when your main competitior chooses Russian over their own.

 

[no_name]

Just imagine the troll level if CAC announces that Russia is interested in acquiring some J-20s in the future.

 

[Schumacher]

117S is so advanced that China requested the engine to Russia,
In 2010, when Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov was on visit to China, Beijing proposed to buy 117C engines, but the offer was turned down.

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you did not care to read, but the Russian defence minister was asked by the Chinese to sell 117s but Russia rejected the chinese proposal and replied buy us the whole jet
You only have two options
Call Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov a liar
or
admit it is true

It's not impossible the defence minister was lying or at least exaggerating to help promote Russian products.
Likely it was something in jest by the Chinese where they said something like 'Do you have a few 117s to spare for $10 each ?'.
And whatever 'interests' China had in the engine obviously evaporated when they saw how they exploded spectacularly on an T50 so 117s end up with the same number of orders for Su35, zero.

 

[SteelBird]

117S is so advanced that China requested the engine to Russia,

In 2010, when Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov was on visit to China, Beijing proposed to buy 117C engines, but the offer was turned down.

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you did not care to read, but the Russian defence minister was asked by the Chinese to sell 117s but Russia rejected the chinese proposal and replied buy us the whole jet

You only have two options

Call Russia’s Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov a liar

or

admit it is true

I do not admit anything but to quote your saying:
- China request 117S
- Russia offer whole jet only
- No deal of whole jet happens
** So conclusion: Su-35 not worth buying!

 

[MiG-29]

I do not admit anything but to quote your saying:
- China request 117S
- Russia offer whole jet only
- No deal of whole jet happens
** So conclusion: Su-35 not worth buying!

Look understand this, i am not interfax, RT news, Sukhoi, RuAF or what ever ego you associate me.


RT news only said


China requested the engine 117S when the Russian defence minister visited China in 2010.

Russia rejected the chinese proposal and instead offered the 117S only if they buy the whole Su-35 in large numbers and China signed an agreement protecting the intellectual property rights of the whole deal.

later reports said the negociations stalled.


Since the 117S most likely cost 10% of what the Su-35 costs, buying 50 Su-35 must be in the range 5 billion dollars.

For Russia a chinese proposal of buying 4-10 engines is not worthed even perhaps a buy of 100 engines for J-11Bs.
Sukhoi is unwilling to help a potential competitor and Pogyosan called to stop the sales of russian engines to China for even the FC-17 and Anatoli Isaykin from Rosoboronexport called to investigate the J-11B and in 2010 at Shuhai, Alexander Miheev also from Rosoboronexport was in talks with the Chinese side to investigate Chinese production of weapons that Russia considered were copycats without license

.


So is very likely Russia is unwilling to aid China unless a large amount of cash is paid by China.


Will Russia sell Su-35 to China only time will tell.


Perhaps later Russia will sell Al-31M1s or Al-31M2s, but it seems after the J-11 license problems with China, Russia is much more wary of China and since Russia today is in a better economic situation, yes for the Russian side it might not be worthed the sale Su-35s if they do not cash a lot of money

 

[no_name]

 

[escobar]