China Flanker Thread II

[crobato]

The Russians for a while were seriously hoping that the original Su-27SKs and J-11s would get their template of the upgrade treatment. That is defined as the Su-27SKM. What it does is basically advance that plane to the Su-30MK2 level, with upgraded N001VEP radar and all. The Russians were also seriously optimistic the PLAAF would bite and so did defense periodicals.

That turned out not to be. Understandable. The radar is dearly obsolete by its mechanical design, and upgrading the back end will only go so far. Furthermore, the Russians are only willing to sell you a downgrade from the same systems used on their own planes. This makes the problem even worst. Then they will charge you big for it.

The J-11B might provide a template for the upgrades on the older planes, minus the engine and composite construction. Getting the new radar alone, plus cockpit, HUD and avionics, plus a radar RCS refining on the intakes would be big, cost effective improvements alone. That's a big market, since it may even potentially include all the Su-30MKKs. All that certainly doesn't make the Russians any happier which adds to the tone of their articles and interviews.

 

[RedMercury]

What about existing servicing and warranty agreements on those Russian built and license built birds? Or perhaps those are long expired/unneeded? Is there an international market for these Flanker upgrades too? Har.

 

[crobato]

What about existing servicing and warranty agreements on those Russian built and license built birds? Or perhaps those are long expired/unneeded? Is there an international market for these Flanker upgrades too? Har.

Warranties are good for three years. However, the PLAAF's contract with the Russians extend to technology transfers so the PLAAF can undertake engine and airframe overhauls inside China. These planes have long expired their warranties and their basic maintenance, even overhauls are now performed in China. These planes appear to be serviced from a combination of Russian purchased and Chinese made parts, though I would incline that the latter would increasingly take over. PLAAF isn't happy with the maintenance rate of the planes, due to the temperment of the parts. For instance, the IRST isn't proving to be robust, and the PLAAF ordered many spares some years ago. Gradually I would believe the Chinese copies of that would take over.

I don't think there is a sufficiently sized market for existing Flanker upgrades outside of China and I doubt the PLAAF would approve of it. Of course the Russians would complain but the PLAAF has their own reasons.

The J-11B structural test airframe now in some junkyard. Got this from the AFM and CMF forums. Photo by Wemeng.

 

[Deino]

....

The J-11B structural test airframe now in some junkyard. Got this from the AFM and CMF forums. Photo by Wemeng.

Are You sure that this is the "B" static-test airframe ??? ... why couldn't it be the older "A" ??

Deino

 

[crobato]

Are You sure that this is the "B" static-test airframe ??? ... why couldn't it be the older "A" ??

Deino

The primer patterns don't resemble that of what I've seen from photos of Su-27s under construction and not painted yet. Lots of grey and dark areas here, which I believe might be composite. The Su-27 is almost all metal except for the tail surfaces.

 

[tphuang]

Warranties are good for three years. However, the PLAAF's contract with the Russians extend to technology transfers so the PLAAF can undertake engine and airframe overhauls inside China. These planes have long expired their warranties and their basic maintenance, even overhauls are now performed in China. These planes appear to be serviced from a combination of Russian purchased and Chinese made parts, though I would incline that the latter would increasingly take over. PLAAF isn't happy with the maintenance rate of the planes, due to the temperment of the parts. For instance, the IRST isn't proving to be robust, and the PLAAF ordered many spares some years ago. Gradually I would believe the Chinese copies of that would take over.

I don't think there is a sufficiently sized market for existing Flanker upgrades outside of China and I doubt the PLAAF would approve of it. Of course the Russians would complain but the PLAAF has their own reasons.

The J-11B structural test airframe now in some junkyard. Got this from the AFM and CMF forums. Photo by Wemeng.

I think I read a kanwa article that was an interview with Sukhoi who said China got the overhaul schedule for Su-30 and they should've been overhauled by now, but China has not asked Russia to do overhaul. Which indicates that China is doing all the maintenance and overhaul work by itself.

 

[crobato]

The PLAAF has an overhaul center that appeared to be fully operational since 2003-4. They overhauled all the Su-27s from the 3rd Division before they were moved to the 19th Division, then later all the Su-27s used by the 2nd Division.

 

[AssassinsMace]

Pinkov is now backtracking on the Su-33 deal claiming that it was not him... not the Russians... not Western wishful thinkers... but the Chinese media that misinterpreted his article as saying the deal was dead because of copying. Really?

 

[crobato]

I won't give much hope on the Su-33 deal no matter what articles say and how dilly dally. In my view, it will never come to an agreement.

Right now, an Su-33 won't fit into the current PLAAF/PLANAF missile infrastructure. Meaning you want to standardize with the radars, avionics, navigation systems, and networking or datalinks used with existing aircraft and infrastructure. You want something that can use PL-12s and YJ-83s, network with J-10s, J-11Bs, Y-8GXs and KJ-2000s. You need to move beyond antiquated radars and networking systems like those used in the Su-30MK2, which is what they're trying to offer for the Su-33.

 

[SteelBird]

The J-11B structural test airframe now in some junkyard. Got this from the AFM and CMF forums. Photo by Wemeng.

The plane looks unfinished to me. While it is in junkyard now, why do they need to cover it so well?

A fast question: Didn't China promise stop copying Russian technology which means the end of J-11B?