China demographics thread.

[manqiangrexue]

I am more in favor of this

View attachment 120318

And I'm more in favor of this

But we need to be realistic about where science is today and where it's likely to be tomorrow. Right now, most people in China can only afford to have a baby the old fashioned way. Those who are very resourceful in the middle class can afford to try surrogacy; if not very resourceful and paying full price, then upper middle class income would be required at least. And surrogacy is about 50/50 success. What's in your picture has never been achieved and once achieved, will be magnitudes more expensive than surrogacy. It will take decades if they ever get the cost down to where common people can afford it.

Realistically speaking, the low-hanging fruit right now would be for China to legalize surrogacy and regulate it against human trafficking and predatory contracts.

 

[BoraTas]

CCP R*pe & Breeding factories confirmed

BDSM videos as evidence

 

[PeoplesPoster]

And I'm more in favor of this

But we need to be realistic about where science is today and where it's likely to be tomorrow. Right now, most people in China can only afford to have a baby the old fashioned way. Those who are very resourceful in the middle class can afford to try surrogacy; if not very resourceful and paying full price, then upper middle class income would be required at least. And surrogacy is about 50/50 success. What's in your picture has never been achieved and once achieved, will be magnitudes more expensive than surrogacy. It will take decades if they ever get the cost down to where common people can afford it.

Realistically speaking, the low-hanging fruit right now would be for China to legalize surrogacy and regulate it against human trafficking and predatory contracts.

Surrogacy will not improve demographics. Every surrogate mother birthing a child will not be birthing a child for herself. Let say in a typical surrogate situation you will need to birth 3 children just to hit replacement numbers for the mother, father, and surrogate mother. That’s not sustainable.

 

[tygyg1111]

R*pe & Breeding factories confirmed

*Japanese style fertility facilities

 

[manqiangrexue]

Surrogacy will not improve demographics. Every surrogate mother birthing a child will not be birthing a child for herself

Hell. No. That is absolutely incorrect. Surrogate babies are always in addition to the surrogate mom's own children. Legally, they count entirely as the client's baby and in a system with a quota on children, count on the client's quota, not the surrogate mother's.

. Let say in a typical surrogate situation you will need to birth 3 children just to hit replacement numbers for the mother, father, and surrogate mother. That’s not sustainable.

Surrogacy means that a woman in the city who has focused her life on her career can now have a child, born for her from probably a rural woman's body. That is an extra child in China who would not have been born if the surrogate mother were simply doing her own family planning. The surrogate mom always already has her own children (that serves as initial proof of fertility as a condition for becoming a surrogate). In Kazaknstan, surrogate moms typically do the business 4 times (legal limit) in addition to her own children, which is typically 2. That means surrogacy has increased the population by 4 via this one surrogate mother. If she were not allowed to be a surrogate mom, she would have just her 2 kids and that would be it... hell, even those 2 might stress her out without the financial impact of earning 4 surrogacy fees.

Can surrogacy be a solution for all of China, making a minority of rural women become super mothers for a majority of city folk? No. There are not nearly enough surrogate moms or people with the wealth to hire surrogate moms to sustain a population like China. But can it give a significant boost among other government measures to boost birth rate? I think so, and is it the best thing that we can actually see on the horizon? Absolutely!

We should continute to do research on artificial wombs to invest in a more perfect future of affordable artificial gestation. I absolutely support that, but if you wait for that future, you will be dead and childless before it comes to find you.

 

[Jiang ZeminFanboy]

But what solution? Surrogacy is illegal in China.

 

[jx191]

Childbearing and upbringing will have to be industrialized and centralized. Education already went through that process. We call that school.
The range of activities available to modern people and modern economic activities disincentivize raising a child. Europe has many beautiful small towns yet its birth rates are bad too.

I think that's something China would do better at. Considering the CCP's greater control and influence over areas that matter.

Like I said, childcare services are a really good way to make child raising more centralized, rather than having grandparents care for children whilst their parents are stressed at work.

 

[manqiangrexue]

But what solution? Surrogacy is illegal in China.

First post on this page:

"Realistically speaking, the low-hanging fruit right now would be for China to legalize surrogacy and regulate it against human trafficking and predatory contracts."

That's the solution.

 

[In4ser]

A controversial opinion but perhaps banning contraception and allowing teenaged pregnancy might actually be the way to go for increasing birthrates as its teenage childbearing was historically normative and is also naturally optimal time for procreation. It’s during the teenage years when sex hormones are primed and mental inhibitions like thinking about consequences of procreating is at their lowest.

Unfortunately, it’s not desirable by society, because families and institutions want to prioritize upon personal academic and professional development during those years over reproduction that it often gets postponed until it never happens.

 

[Proteus]

A controversial opinion but perhaps banning contraception and allowing teenaged pregnancy might actually be the way to go for increasing birthrates as its teenage childbearing was historically normative and is also naturally optimal time for procreation. It’s during the teenage years when sex hormones are primed and mental inhibitions like thinking about consequences of procreating is at their lowest.

Unfortunately, it’s not desirable by society, because families and institutions want to prioritize upon personal academic and professional development during those years over reproduction that it often gets postponed until it never happens.

Contraception is actually good, there is nothing wrong with it, a lot of people with unhappy families and low education will cause a lot of trouble than fewer people with good education, and happy families. In my view, The East Asia problem is that a lot of burden on the parents, and the expectations on their children are also too high causing a lot of stress, the children must take a lot of time to deal with the expectations and when the environment is too harsh, they will be in "fight or flight" situation, and currently, more people are flight from reality will be cause the trouble(don't want to make family, just want to be alone), the people can adapt with the environment will continue survive. You can make the environment more comfortable to make more fighters, normally the government will provide help with the resources but I think it will be a limited resource for the people, the better way is to make society more productive (everything will be cheaper, more efficient) and have good education make people more responsibility for them, family, and society.