China demographics thread.

[tankphobia]

A work week can maximally be 40 hours.

Afaik it's the standard for other developed economies.

It's more that it costs more to raise children in China compared to many other places, along with a societal outlook which emphasizes personal growth rather than familial responsibility.

Isn't a lot of the work actually done under unpaid overtime under 9-9-6? This way the 40 hr a week figure may be deceptive. That practice seems common enough in tech companies and across the whole East Asia corporate space, notable example being Japan where you HAVE to leave after your boss even if you're just napping on the table.

 

[Virtup]

Isn't a lot of the work actually done under unpaid overtime under 9-9-6? This way the 40 hr a week figure may be deceptive. That practice seems common enough in tech companies and across the whole East Asia corporate space, notable example being Japan where you HAVE to leave after your boss even if you're just napping on the table.

No, that 9-9-6 corporate policy got nuked by the chinese government some time ago. Anything above 8 hours a day is paid overtime.

 

[Michaelsinodef]

Isn't a lot of the work actually done under unpaid overtime under 9-9-6? This way the 40 hr a week figure may be deceptive. That practice seems common enough in tech companies and across the whole East Asia corporate space, notable example being Japan where you HAVE to leave after your boss even if you're just napping on the table.

It should be about the 40 hours for most state owned enterprises.

As for private companies, it basically depends on the company, although overtime should usually be compensated (if not, the workers needs to raise the issue).

 

[Biscuits]

Isn't a lot of the work actually done under unpaid overtime under 9-9-6? This way the 40 hr a week figure may be deceptive. That practice seems common enough in tech companies and across the whole East Asia corporate space, notable example being Japan where you HAVE to leave after your boss even if you're just napping on the table.

Only a tiny proportion of "elite" tech bros, because they copy it from Silicon valley.

It's prohibitively expensive for companies to pay that much overtime, but the ones that want to "innovate" don't care, they can throw the cash. And in some cases, it does pay off to have teams running around 24/7.

 

[gadgetcool5]

A small Japanese town charges visitors to learn its baby-making tips​

In a Japanese town with fewer than 6,000 people, the birth rate is double what it is in the country overall; it's nearly three, whereas the rest of Japan is only slightly above one.

Parents pay a maximum of $420 a month in daycare expenses for their first child, according to tourism guides, The Journal reported. For a second child, parents pay a maximum of $210, and aren't charged for any kids they have after that.

Additionally, parents in Nagi receive a stipend of $1,000 annually for each child they have enrolled in high school. On top of that, parents receive one-time payments following the birth of their children, which more than double with the birth of each successive child — i.e. an $879 payment for the first and a $3,518 payment for the third. The town also offers free medical care for all children, and subsidized, according to CNN in 2019.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

 

[Eventine]

If we see massive jobs displacement by AI in 15-20 years time, the falling birth rate might even be considered a boon for China. I've long been skeptical of "automation will displace jobs" narratives, but I think a supercharged AI might be different. At first, it will increase productivity until it can replace people outright.

It's also worth pointing out that China up until ~2040 will see a rising number of STEM graduates. So even if birth rates have collapsed, China will have the demographic momentum up until 2040 to increase innovation due to very large STEM cohorts who were born prior to the Covid collapse.

By contrast, I am not sure I'd want to be in the shoes of a country like Pakistan or Nigeria which have very high birthrates on top of a high population. These countries already teeter on the brink and large-scale jobs displacement by AI in the late 2030s and beyond for even petty service sector jobs would be cataclysmic for them.

Robots can replace supply to an extent, but they can't replace demand. Countries will have to get creative with their economies to get past the demand crunch. Market capitalism will almost certainly collapse as an economic system. State capitalism may survive, but export-oriented economies like South Korea's will be increasingly hard pressed because in a demand crunch, countries will favor protectionism and trade barriers.

Fortunately, China is neither a market economy nor does it depend on exports to function. But China must fix its demographics to maintain demand and entrepreneurial vitality.

 

[gadgetcool5]

Beijing is offering to pay for IVF and most other fertility treatments after China recorded its first population decline in more than 60 years​

Bejing announced it would start covering fertility treatments in July as China scrambles to reverse a declining birth rate.

Beijing's government said this week it would cover more than a dozen fertility treatments, including IVF, embryo transplantation, and freezing and storing semen, Reuters reported.

Meanwhile, private clinics in the southwestern Chinese province of Sichuan have already begun allowing unmarried women access to fertility treatments, including IVF, Reuters reported.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Great. Now do the entire country.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1672134512015298560

 

[luminary]

Good to see concerned businesses take action. An all-of-society response is appropriate for this situation.

China's biggest online travel agency to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Trip.com Group said on Friday (June 30) it would pay 50,000 yuan (S$9,346) to employees for each child they have starting July 1 - the first such initiative by a large private company in China. The programme will cost about 1 billion yuan, the company said.

"I have always suggested that the government give money to families with children, especially multiple children, to help more young people fulfil their desire to have multiple children," Trip.com executive chairman James Liang said in a statement. "Companies can also play a role within their own capabilities to build a favourable fertility atmosphere."

Liang, who is also a demographer, published a book titled "Population Strategies: How Population Affects Economy and Innovation" this year and has suggested that 2% of China's Gross Domestic Product (GDP) should be put toward encouraging fertility.

 

[Dark Father]

Good to see concerned businesses take action. An all-of-society response is appropriate for this situation.

China's biggest online travel agency to

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

There are legions of employers in China asking young women if they have plans to have a child because they do not want to pay for maternity leave. This company is a totally different beast and looks beyond the short term of annual profit. Good for them. Likely the first company taking this step. They should make this Trip.com CEO minister of demographics. One of the few rich man in China taking the Chinese demographic collapse serious it seems.

 

[tamsen_ikard]

Do you guys think China will use reverse one Child Policy style penalties and massive social, media campaign to boost Birth Rate by creating a culture where not having children is seen as anti-social and taboo? This is exactly what happened with one child policy where having even 2 children was seen as taboo and being anti-society anti-patriotic and so on.

Decades of birth reduction policies have created a culture in China where having Children is deeply unpopular. Young people openly crticize intiatives on Weibo to raise births and talk about about how they will never have children and so on. I don't think this would have been allowed if Chinese govt intiates a policy to change social culture around having children. They would have been censored.

If China was serious about raising birth rates. They could easily create a social and media campaign that shows people who have jobs but no children are freeloaders who are putting burden on other people children to support them in their old age. They could make it that anyone that do not have children are social outcasts and villains and do not contribute to society. Then they could easily penalize such people with higher taxes, not allowing such people to apply for certain high quality jobs or even not allowing promotion to higher positions.

I believe just monetary incentives are not enough to boost birth rates. There needs to be a change people's mindset about having children. Having children should not be seen by the public as a luxury but an absolute necessity. In the past, people had no social safety net and thus having children was a must. Now they don't have such pressures, so government has to step in create such pressures so that not having children becomes a liability. Only then will people devote years of theirs lives to raise children.