China Ballistic Missiles and Nuclear Arms Thread

Status
Not open for further replies.

Blitzo

Lieutenant General
Staff member
Super Moderator
Registered Member
We all agree that China should expand its arsenal past its present level, where we disagree is where that expansion should stop. From reading what you wrote here and my previous discussions with you, my impression is that you think "robust counter-value" is sufficient to deter the bulk of the middle ground (implicit in that is China shouldn't pursue an arsenal of US/Russia's size). I agree with that assessment but I think China should pursue something more that just deterrence; it should be able to credibly threaten a first strike on the US. Furthermore, a retaliatory strike by China should annihilate the US as a matter of principle. The vast majority of the US population (90%+) should die in the initial strike and the land should be rendered uninhabitable for centuries to come.

Vengeance is a goal in itself independent from deterrence.

Where in my previous posts did I make any statement about where China's nuclear arsenal should "stop"?

What I described was the low ball requirement for achieving robust and comprehensive counter-value capability -- something which China even today does not have and will take some time to achieve.


I was responding to the following paragraph:

The assumption that China would not be the instigator of a nuclear war should not be taken as given. It's true today because China doesn't have the numbers to credibly threaten a first strike, but I don't think it's an assumption that should inform Chinese nuclear posture in perpetuity.

The reason the US respects fears Russia's nuclear arsenal is not purely a matter of numbers. There's an instinctive terror that's been instilled into generations Americans during the Cold War that resonates to this day. You can actually see on the nuclear stockpile graphs the enormous growth of the Soviet arsenal that drilled this terror into Americans' skulls. They don't have this fear of China's arsenal and won't until they see it grow very rapidly into enormous proportions.


Again, I never said anything about "in perpetuity" either.

I was saying that China has the need to achieve robust and comprehensive counter-value capability. I never said that China couldn't or shouldn't consider additional nuclear capability or strategy beyond it.

If you want to talk about counter-force or first strike capability, fine, I never stated I was against such strategies or ruling it out.

But it was not part of the scope of my discussion.
 

TK3600

Major
Registered Member
Back to topic, @Blitzo when do you think counter force should be considered after achieving what level of counter value? My personal proposal in the other post was the ability to wipe out 20% of population of US and nuclear armed allies, and has enough left to deter likes of Japan and India afterwards.
 

Minm

Junior Member
Registered Member
I created a google spread sheet to help everyone get a better understanding of the nuke without either overestimating or underestimating its power.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!

Around 900 to 1,000 nukes can either instantly kill or seriously injure 70% of the US population, and destroy all major cities with a 100,000+ population. One should note that the original author assumed PLARF could switch between 150kt and 650kt nukes at a whim, which is simply untrue. Historical reasons (DF-31A single warhead deployment) and the very counter-value nature of Chinese deterrence both lead to 650 kt nukes as China's nuclear backbone. The silo base would very likely be deployed with 650 kt warheads. Ultimately, it will take fewer warheads than 900 for China to achieve the same strategic goal.

There is nothing wrong with stopping at 1,550 nuclear stockpile since it suffices to ensure a MAD with the US and more nukes don't bring much more counter-value capability with diminishing returns. Russia and the US put their treaty limit at 1,550 after their own calculations about "How many nukes are enough?"

The bottom line is that 1,550 nukes make a guarantee of a counter-value plan, which can deter the US from live-fire aggression.

But WHAT IF, the deterrence fails? Either some lunatics think they can disarm China by launching a first strike against silo fields or inadvertent escalation. Though very unlikely to happen, here comes the general second strike.

1. A 1,000-warhead counter-value plan(Silo-based ICBMs alone can do this.)

2. Naval bases and shipyards for US SSBNs

3. US Strategic bomber airfields

4. The US non-deployed nuclear stockpile

It will still leave about one hundred warheads as negotiating bargaining chips after the first salvo.
China needs enough warheads so that it can carry out such a strike even after suffering a first strike and assuming that American ballistic missile defences are very efficient. So ideally, you'd want to have 10 times more than necessary. 15,000 warheads
 

ZeEa5KPul

Colonel
Registered Member
It might be that or trying to get Middle Eastern nations into compliance.
Having the capability to launch SLBMs from that position does mean that Russia and China need radar coverage and air defense to cover from that flank as well.
EW satellites have global coverage. The heat from the SLBM launches would be detected immediately and every silo in Russia and China would launch at America.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top