Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

[Overbom]

Btw, first very serious sign that it may in fact be very fast (M=2.6+ longterm).
Almost all modern fighters don't touch 2+/2.35+/2.5+ flight for thermal reasons, cockpit glass being the first one.

with such high speed and high combat range, wouldn't that make a certain new subsonic bomber a fish on the chopping board?

 

[TK3600]

The J-20 took [6-7 years] from [1st flight] to [Initial operational capability]

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Also take note of what the USAF General said about China acquiring weapons 5x faster than the USAF. Article below

twz.com/china-acquiring-new-weapons-five-times-faster-than-u-s-warns-top-official

That means US takes 30-35 years from flight to capability lol.

 

[BoraTas]

There's a new paid episode of Chahuahui on QingTing FM talking about 6th gen, I highly recommend it. When the paid series came out I straight away paid for a year worth, that's how highly I think of it.

Anyway Yankee, Shilao and Ayi spent the first 80 minutes setting up history like NGAD, centuary series, last 40 minutes are all about the two prototypes. They recorded the show before news of either of the maiden flight hit the air wave and majority of it is in the context of the CAC prototype. Some new info:

Shilao and Yankee mentioned no less than 3 times the concept that if your 6th gen is a B-21, then you've already lost the game, or in Shilao's words "你已经急了”. Imagine how slow F-35 is and how that affects its air combat capabilities, then imagine your 6th gen is EVEN slower.

Reason for 3 engines has a lot to do with EW. Instead of existing setup of a regular fighter having EW specific version like J-16 and J-16D, PLAAF envisions future fighters to all be at least as competent at EW as J-16D as a baseline. Yankee points to J-20S as potent of this. He points to the fact that AVIC's display plaque at Zhuhai lists "very strong EW capability" as a J-20S baseline feature. 6th gen is to take this even further. So you need two pilots, even more power generation and even more space to arrange the plane so the EW aspect and stealth aspect don't interfere with each other.

When you then add more fuel for more range, high altitude high speed and supercruise into that mix the plane grows to a size that necessarily requires 3 engines. If you don't want to have 3 engines and willing to instead sacrifice speed then you are building a B-21 and therefore 急了.

When CAC presented the 3 engine design to PLAAF naturally the first question asked was "wouldn't this increase maintenance difficulty" and CAC straight up answered yes, it will, deal with it unless you want a B-21.

Yankee didn't say how much SAC's approach prioritise EW but he did say their solution was indeed built with future CVN in mind, so their version is less radical and more closely resemble what people would have though NGAD would look like. For pilot workload instead of a second person they approach was to install some kind of AI module behind the pilot to assist him. Yankee specified this AI module was the fruit of the earlier Intelligence Victory/智胜 program conducted on that experimental J-16. Shilao likened this module to a R2-D2 unit.

Yankee said given the extremely complex nature of system integration required for 6th gen there's much more work left to do before all the internals are filled with tech wizardry. At the moment both CAC and SAC are busy with making sure their prototypes get the flying part right given for both of them these are new aerodynamic layouts. They both wanted to get the prototype flying first, as both a grudge match between them and as a way to bait USAF to release photos and info of any NGAD prototypes if they exist so they could be studied. Yankee personally thinks no such info is forthcoming not because Americans can resist being baited but because reorganising NGAD to put so much emphasis on CCA is symbol of a project management crisis. Both SAC and CAC prototypes have always been envisioned as being the central piece of a whole system surrounded by CCAs. Shilao amusingly called the central manned platform "主机”(master machine) or “母机”(mother machine).

This is a comment I posted on a discord group about my expectations from the 6th gen. As far as I know the current 5th gens are weak in low bands. Both in signature and EW... Their EW strength comes from their use of the nose radar as a jammer. But there is only a single X-band radar on the current fighters. Therefore in other bands they are still limited to self-defense. Everyone knows about their much higher signature in low bands too. I expect these to change with the 6th gen. IMO this might end up as among the primary differences between the 5th and 6th gens.

J-16D-like EW performance would satisfy my expectations as the J-16D has special pods for lower bands.
Note: It seems, my LWIR camera expectations were on point too.

 

[Gloire_bb]

with such high speed and high combat range, wouldn't that make a certain new subsonic bomber a fish on the chopping board?

Don't think they're related too much tbh. Neither is defensive platform, so chance of them meeting doesn't seem high to me.

Also, I don't think Vmax is generational gap per se, b/c speed continiously decreased since 3/early 4 for a simple reason of not really being worth it in a slower world. Mach 3 by itself isn't that big a deal since early 1960s.
I.e. it may jump back again if a particular plane needs it, but it is more of this particular planes' special point, not of generation.
Fighter of any generation after 2nd can go for mach 3(Mig-31), or it can be in fact subsonic(harrier II+). Still a fighter.

 

[TK3600]

If US intel is so great why did they get caught with their pants down twice this month?

I think they saw this coming. They stopped buying F-35 a year ago. The powerplant issue is a cope, all previous F-35 had same issue. They stopped buying because it is outmatched. It is a waste of money. Not only did purchase stop they stopped accept finished planes.

 

[Gloire_bb]

I think they saw this coming. They stopped buying F-35 a year ago. The powerplant issue is a cope, all previous F-35 had same issue. They stopped buying because it is outmatched. It is a waste of money. Not only did purchase stop they stopped accept finished planes.

Procurement goes on, it's simply reduced(temporarily; jets are still produced and wait acceptance) to help LM find motivation to make the bloody tfr work.

 

[sequ]

Guangcha team claimed it has a range close to 10000km.

Just by eyeballing the J-36, it should have 50% more range than the J-20 because of the doubling of the fuel capacity while consuming 50% more because of the extra engine. Realistically, combat radius should be in the +/- 2500km range.

Which is exactly the range to the 2IC...

 

[zyklon]

If US intel is so great why did they get caught with their pants down twice this month?

I think they saw this coming.

The problem with, or to be more precise, the nature of the US intelligence community (and any other similar enterprise) is that it consists of dozens of agencies with hundreds of thousands of uniformed, civilian and contract personnel that may or may not be able communicate effectively with one another.

Someone somewhere within the IC probably knew what was up, but that doesn't mean it was or was supposed to be communicated to policymakers, nevermind disclosed to the public. Uncle Sam doesn't want you to think he is watching you, nevermind what sources and methods he might employ to observe, track and listen in.

The left hand not knowing what the right hand is up to and vice versa is an inherent challenge within any organization or institution where secrecy is an imperative and compartmentalization is second nature.

This is largely, if not basically why 9/11 and 10/7 occurred despite the enormous resources the US and Israel devote to intelligence.

Moreover, sometimes from the perspective of senior management at the assorted alphabet soup agencies and the DoD, sometimes (especially for funding purposes) it's better to let things happen than to annoy your boss with an "I told you so" moment down the road.

 

[iewgnem]

Don't think they're related too much tbh. Neither is defensive platform, so chance of them meeting doesn't seem high to me.

Also, I don't think Vmax is generational gap per se, b/c speed continiously decreased since 3/early 4 for a simple reason of not really being worth it in a slower world. Mach 3 by itself isn't that big a deal since early 1960s.
I.e. it may jump back again if a particular plane needs it, but it is more of this particular planes' special point, not of generation.
Fighter of any generation after 2nd can go for mach 3(Mig-31), or it can be in fact subsonic(harrier II+). Still a fighter.

That depends on how you achieved that speed, yes brute force / afterburner top speed that can't be sustained is irrelevant, but ramjet based speed isn't.

It's basic physics that engagement envelope of any existing AA missile fired from a F-35 cruising subsonically at 40k ft doesn't or barely touches Mach 3, 60k ft target, US needed F-22 with tanker support just to hit a floating balloon at 60k ft.

We don't know if J-36 does or does not have some kind of ramjet, but if it does and does cruise at >50k ft and Mach 2-3, it will objectively achieve total one sided dominance over all 5th gen.

 

[piko1]

KONP posted on Weibo yesterday that the COFFIN cockpit, i.e transmiting images onto screens inside the cockpit via exterior cameras, was considered in the early stages. From a thermal management perspective, this makes sense.

thats something i would put on a high speed interceptor may this be a strategic interceptor just a random thought