Chengdu next gen combat aircraft (?J-36) thread

kurutoga

Junior Member
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I concur. I've said in a previous post that I do not believe those are 2D TVCs. Not sure why some are so adamant that it is.
Also I think everyone agrees that it's quite obvious the J36 is optimized for long stand off engagements which further makes TVC superfluous.

There are visible gaps between the flaps behind every engine.
 

Nx4eu

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I concur. I've said in a previous post that I do not believe those are 2D TVCs. Not sure why some are so adamant that it is.
Also I think everyone agrees that it's quite obvious the J36 is optimized for long stand off engagements which further makes TVC superfluous.
Given what we see on the aircraft, what else could it be? Why else are those things at the back separate from the rest of the fuselage? It may not be the kind of 2D TVCs you are thinking of. I think being imaginative is good. It definitely appears there is a mechanism at the back meant the exhaust from the engine. And Some users here have offered possible reasons why those exist, which leads us to some kind of method of controlling thrust direction. Despite the J-36 being optimized for long stand off engagements, maneuverability should not be completely disregarded. The ability to alter it's own vector quickly is tactically necessary for a fighter.

Theory on the type of TVC used on J-36. Fairly unconventional if true.

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Another possible thrust vectoring method - airstream around the engine nozzle affects the jetstream's direction.

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Yuqi ZHANG, Jinglei XU, Minglei CAO, Ruifeng PAN, Shuai HUANG
Chinese Journal of Aeronautics
Volume 37, Issue 10, October 2024, Pages 184-206

Abstract
The Bypass Dual Throat Nozzle (BDTN) is a novel fluidic Thrust Vectoring (TV) nozzle, it switches to TV state by opening the valve in the bypass. To greatly manipulate the BDTN, the dynamic characteristics in the TV starting process should be analyzed. This paper conducts numerical simulations to grasp the variation processes of performances and the flow field evolution of BDTN and Dual Throat Nozzle (DTN). The dynamic responses of TV starting in typical DTN models are investigated at first. Then, the TV starting processes of BDTN in different Nozzle Pressure Ratio (NPR) conditions are simulated, and the valve opening durations (T) are also considered. Before the expected TV direction is achieved in the DTN, the jet is deflected to the opposite direction at the beginning of the dynamic process, which is called the reverse TV phenomenon. However, this phenomenon disappears in the BDTN. The larger injection width of DTN intensifies unsteady oscillations, and the reverse TV phenomenon is strengthened. In the BDTN, T determines the delay degree of performance variations compared to the static results, which is called hysteresis effect. At NPR = 10, the hysteresis affects the final stable performance of BDTN. This study analyses the dynamic characteristics in DTN and BDTN, laying a foundation for further design of nozzles and control strategies.
 

sutton999

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BEST PART:

So that was the first aircraft. And as we were sort of reeling from that, because those images started actually appearing at 4:00 PM in China, it's 3:00 AM here, and I was getting hip to all this as I was waking up very abruptly the day after Christmas. And after a few hours of this, something else started appearing, another aircraft that we also had not seen before. And it was also a tailless configuration.


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donnnage99

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Your comment is actually lazy

1. The Chinese J-20 has EOTS and IRST
2. The American F-35 only has EOTS. The F-22 has neither EOTS or IRST

TWZ article below

"Used in conjunction with the IRST, it would allow the J-20 to silently detect and engage targets at beyond visual ranges—with the IRST detecting and the EOTS-86 identifying targets"

twz.com/22534/high-quality-shots-of-unpainted-chinese-j-20-stealth-fighter-offer-new-capability-insights"

---

And presumably external IRST pods will compromise radar stealth on the F-35 or F-22

"The Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) is the world’s first sensor that
combines forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and infrared search and track
(IRST) functionality."
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This is a major advancement in the sensor's casing enclosure/window that so far only the US achieved on an operational or planned jet. Electro-optical sensor and IRST operate at a different thermal frequencies so the enclosures are made of specific material tailored for that particular frenquency (the enclosure has to be transparent for the sensor). F-35's EOTS's enclosure is made to be transparent for wide range of frequency capable of accommodating both functions.

The f-22's AN/AAR-56 (not to be confused with AN/ALR-56) is a system comprised of six infrared sensors providing 360 degrees missile launch detection that detect and track enemy's missile's entire flight envelop from moment of launching and even after the rocket motor has burnt off by detecting "aerodynamic heat gain from approaching missiles".
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As a side consequence, the system can provide good resolution video 360 around aircraft but the software was not coded to support feeding that directly to the pilot. This might change once the f-22 receive its HMD and I suspect the apertures upgraded to latest f-35 resolution.

Anyway, to circle back to the J-36. I see on J-36 seemingly 2 IR/EO sensors facing the same direction on each side of the nose radome (2 on one side 2 on the other). This could be indicative that it still need 2 separate housings for each function (IRST and EOS). I don't think it's likely but it is a possibillity nonetheless. Time will tell.
 

Biscuits

Major
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"The Electro-Optical Targeting System (EOTS) is the world’s first sensor that
combines forward-looking infrared (FLIR) and infrared search and track
(IRST) functionality."
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This is a major advancement in the sensor's casing enclosure/window that so far only the US achieved on an operational or planned jet.
No, J-20 variants all have.
Electro-optical sensor and IRST operate at a different thermal frequencies so the enclosures are made of specific material tailored for that particular frenquency (the enclosure has to be transparent for the sensor). F-35's EOTS's enclosure is made to be transparent for wide range of frequency capable of accommodating both functions.

The f-22's AN/AAR-56 (not to be confused with AN/ALR-56) is a system comprised of six infrared sensors providing 360 degrees missile launch detection that detect and track enemy's missile's entire flight envelop from moment of launching and even after the rocket motor has burnt off by detecting "aerodynamic heat gain from approaching missiles".
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As a side consequence, the system can provide good resolution video 360 around aircraft but the software was not coded to support feeding that directly to the pilot. This might change once the f-22 receive its HMD and I suspect the apertures upgraded to latest f-35 resolution.

Anyway, to circle back to the J-36. I see on J-36 seemingly 2 IR/EO sensors facing the same direction on each side of the nose radome (2 on one side 2 on the other). This could be indicative that it still need 2 separate housings for each function (IRST and EOS). I don't think it's likely but it is a possibillity nonetheless. Time will tell.
 

iewgnem

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It's fun listening to Americans trying to map next gen designs into their last gen understanding.
- Every design is for sniping tankers because they can't imagine their fighters getting shot down
- J-36 is once again for projecting power to 2IC because they can't imagine losing those islands
- J-36 being mature must mean it's not as advanced because they can't imagine US is really that far behind.
- US having nothing to show for must be because US have higher requirements because they can't imagine US can't meet Chinese requirements
- China must struggle to fund all those projects because they can't imagine America is infact a far smaller economy than China.
- GCAP is a thing because they live under the delusion that UK and Japan are solvent and remotely relevant.

Some people think J-36/J-50 is great for NGAD, I think it's actually the worst thing that could happen to it. Without J-36 they could redefine NGAD to be something more within America's limited capabilities, but with J-36, J-50 and other systems, and with American refusal to acknowledge their limitations, they'll get trapped into perpetually unhappy with whatever they come up with, either because it's beyond their abilities, or its too low-end to fit their imperial delusions, with end result being they end up with nothing.
 

tygyg1111

Captain
Registered Member
It's fun listening to Americans trying to map next gen designs into their last gen understanding.
- Every design is for sniping tankers because they can't imagine their fighters getting shot down
- J-36 is once again for projecting power to 2IC because they can't imagine losing those islands
- J-36 being mature must mean it's not as advanced because they can't imagine US is really that far behind.
- US having nothing to show for must be because US have higher requirements because they can't imagine US can't meet Chinese requirements
- China must struggle to fund all those projects because they can't imagine America is infact a far smaller economy than China.
- GCAP is a thing because they live under the delusion that UK and Japan are solvent and remotely relevant.

Some people think J-36/J-50 is great for NGAD, I think it's actually the worst thing that could happen to it. Without J-36 they could redefine NGAD to be something more within America's limited capabilities, but with J-36, J-50 and other systems, and with American refusal to acknowledge their limitations, they'll get trapped into perpetually unhappy with whatever they come up with, either because it's beyond their abilities, or its too low-end to fit their imperial delusions, with end result being they end up with nothing.
So they get F-35's in perpetuity...
 
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