AUKUS News, Views, Analysis.

For the 1st time since the US helped the Brits in nuclear sub tech, US has made a decision to share it's nuclear propulsion tech with another state. US decision has finally opened the nuclear military tech market which otherwise gave advantage to states such as Russia and France. What is being offered to a treaty partner today, may be offered to a another partner tomorrow. This complicates China's calculus as PLAN will have to confront more muscular navies. This US opening up could change the market. It signaled to the rest of the world that it is not bound by yesterday commitments to norms and vague notions of regional stability.
What does it mean for India's nuke sub program e.g.?

Fedupwithlies said:

I wonder if economic improvements via the Belt-and-Road Initiative will be enough to mollify the ASEAN population, with promises from China for more development if the SCS issues become resolved. Essentially, trading SCS claims (which, lets be honest, isn't really an economic engine for most of these countries) for Chinese investment on the homeland (which will directly create jobs, improve infrastructure, and lead to a better quality of life).

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I think BRI is already having effects on soft power and hard economic power. Eg. The hsr project in indonesia is going well, the one in Thailand is getting back on track. The supply of vaccines is playing the part despite western news denial. The loss of Chinese tourist is also very obvious and people in touristy places like Bangkok and Bali are clamoring for return of Chinese tourists. This will all help.

The bigger picture is The ASEAN countries do not want hostilities with China or choose a side between China and US that much is clear. Different from Australia. It's hard to imagine now perhaps, but Australia even had honeymoon relationship phase with China way back during heiight of US "war on terror." moreover 5-10 years ago the Aus media was openly asking if Aus needed to choose a side between their biggest security ally US and their biggest trade partner China. I myself thought Aus will still stay neutral. I was wrong and now we know they went all in on the anglo bros alliance.

However with ASEAN, aside from many also having China as their biggest trade partner, unlike Australia, they dun share the anglo heritage, and they have experience of colonization from European powers. The population is culturally nearer to Chinese culture which bring both positive ad negative I guess. So for the forseeable future in my opinion asean people simply want a better quality life, more income and the area economic integration with china is a a good way to achieve that. Confrontation and war is not something they desire even in context of the SCS disputes.

escobar said:

For the 1st time since the US helped the Brits in nuclear sub tech, US has made a decision to share it's nuclear propulsion tech with another state. US decision has finally opened the nuclear military tech market which otherwise gave advantage to states such as Russia and France. What is being offered to a treaty partner today, may be offered to a another partner tomorrow. This complicates China's calculus as PLAN will have to confront more muscular navies. This US opening up could change the market. It signaled to the rest of the world that it is not bound by yesterday commitments to norms and vague notions of regional stability.
What does it mean for India's nuke sub program e.g.?

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Yanks just want to make huge profits, regardless. Why US constantly in war in its history of 240 years, except about 20 years? Greed and to support its economy. No war, how can those massive weaponry manufacturers survive? If there is peace, just use any excuse to create war!

escobar said:

For the 1st time since the US helped the Brits in nuclear sub tech, US has made a decision to share it's nuclear propulsion tech with another state. US decision has finally opened the nuclear military tech market which otherwise gave advantage to states such as Russia and France. What is being offered to a treaty partner today, may be offered to a another partner tomorrow. This complicates China's calculus as PLAN will have to confront more muscular navies. This US opening up could change the market. It signaled to the rest of the world that it is not bound by yesterday commitments to norms and vague notions of regional stability.
What does it mean for India's nuke sub program e.g.?

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All that signals is desperation. To see how desperate the US is in general, and about nuclear submarines in particular, one need only look at the images you posted in the Type 09-V thread:

nlalyst said:

I was speaking of the nouveau riche mainlanders who visit the Philippines and act like they own the place. Those are the people who give China a bad image.

As for the diaspora: it was not a shit observation nor a moral judgment. I was stating the facts and you and @ansy1968 corroborated them. Call it racism or envy or whatever, but the fact is the Chinese diaspora was historically not that much liked in the SEA countries.



One example that came to my mind: they managed to antagonize Indonesia who is not even a claimant in the SCS dispute. The Chinese Coast Guard obstructed the Indonesians on several occasions from enforcing their EEZ rights.

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"One example that came to my mind: they managed to antagonize Indonesia who is not even a claimant in the SCS dispute. The Chinese Coast Guard obstructed the Indonesians on several occasions from enforcing their EEZ rights."

If us Chinese are just as vengeful as the Americans are then we would have done more than just offend the sensibilities of those poor helpless Indonesia. Back when Suharto came into power in that archipelago, he killed thousands of Chinese ethnic minority for political reasons since the Chinese ethnic group were being all lumped together as commies. So I don't give to f..KS about Indonesia's geopolitical crocodile tears if am being blunt here. They have a clear choice in front of them: become the b..ch of the U.S. through the subjugation of her interests and future economic independence and subjugate herself and interests in the region to Australia or remain as it is with an improved relationship with China while strengthening her country's economic prosperity and realize it's actual massive potential. If the 1st option is her choice then China would have no choice but to bomb the shit out of that country into smithereens if it elected to militarily engage China and joint the three piñatas in trying to stop China reintegrating Taiwan into the fold.

The situation needs no further complications when we all know power comes from economic strength and from the barrel of the gun; the rest are just all smoke and mirrors. You can keep all your high minded drivel when it doesn't mean jack s..t to anyone who knows what's up. Reality is not about who's able to deliver the best Prose or slogan; it's about who holds the biggest stick and can use that stick to compel anyone to it's will. When that happens the rest will follow.

davidau said:

Yanks just want to make huge profits, regardless. Why US constantly in war in its history of 240 years, except about 20 years? Greed and to support its economy. No war, how can those massive weaponry manufacturers survive? If there is peace, just use any excuse to create war!

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Who don't want to make huge profit lol. US elite use all these "national security' and 'defending/building democracy' to turn public money to private money lol. Anyway that is not the issue. That deal not great for PLA

ZeEa5KPul said:

All that signals is desperation. To see how desperate the US is in general, and about nuclear submarines in particular, one need only look at the images you posted in the Type 09-V thread:

09V/09VI (095/096) Nuclear Submarine Thread

The new South construction hall is now completed. What does that mean regarding the type 095/096 submarine projects? They needed new construction facilities in order to build them?

www.sinodefenceforum.com

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You say desperation, I say they are so serious that they are now selling SSN, that is all that matters. what could they sell after? Be paranoid

escobar said:

You say desperation, I say they are so serious that they are now selling SSN, that is all that matters. what could they sell after? Be paranoid

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Cyber tools for AUS to use, UK and US gets to see how they work, AUS takes the heat again.

escobar said:

For the 1st time since the US helped the Brits in nuclear sub tech, US has made a decision to share it's nuclear propulsion tech with another state. US decision has finally opened the nuclear military tech market which otherwise gave advantage to states such as Russia and France. What is being offered to a treaty partner today, may be offered to a another partner tomorrow. This complicates China's calculus as PLAN will have to confront more muscular navies. This US opening up could change the market. It signaled to the rest of the world that it is not bound by yesterday commitments to norms and vague notions of regional stability.
What does it mean for India's nuke sub program e.g.?

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@escobar Sir my answer, the US destroyed the Nuclear Non Proliferation Treaty, the institution that they themselves build and this agreement is dangerous for America itself because of its regime change policy. A lot of country have grievances against the US and having a Nukes is guarantee of survival so instead of a single threat it had multiple with countries like Iran, Turkey and maybe Egypt having one. Its a nightmare scenario for the US.

nlalyst said:

I was speaking of the nouveau riche mainlanders who visit the Philippines and act like they own the place. Those are the people who give China a bad image.

As for the diaspora: it was not a shit observation nor a moral judgment. I was stating the facts and you and @ansy1968 corroborated them. Call it racism or envy or whatever, but the fact is the Chinese diaspora was historically not that much liked in the SEA countries.



One example that came to my mind: they managed to antagonize Indonesia who is not even a claimant in the SCS dispute. The Chinese Coast Guard obstructed the Indonesians on several occasions from enforcing their EEZ rights.

Click to expand...

"I was speaking of the nouveau riche mainlanders who visit the Philippines and act like they own the place. Those are the people who give China a bad image."

I don't really know where you get your impressions from bud but I doubt it's from personal experience because like I said I have been to the Philippines and lived there for years even though I no longer resides the country I still go there for vacation from time to time. The last time was back in 2019 and I visited Manila, Makati, Quezon City, the province of Laguna visited the town of a place called Lumban. Then from there I went to visit Cebu to do cliff diving and sight seeing. Checked out their huge malls. From there, I proceeded to visit the beautiful and scenic island of Siargao to surf etc. And actually able to make friends with Chinese guys and gal from the mainland (Hebei province) I was able to talk to them about all the stereotypical nonsense that's usually advertised heavily on social media and popular media in the west about the "rude and uncouth" Chinese tourists. I can tell you throughout my almost 3 weeks of stay there I actually took the time to speak with the locals speaking in their dialect (When in Rome do what Romans do) to gauge their opinions on China and Chinese tourists. The majority of the folks have a positive view and feelings from Chinese tourists because they know they/we bring money into their country which in turn helps their tourism based economy. I did hear a gripe from a local Taxi driver during my trip to one of the popular casinos in Manila. The man was complaining that it was very difficult for local Filipinos to get a job at these new Casinos being built since it requires for everyone to speak Mandarin/putonghua and since the Philippines are in short supply or almost no existing human capital that can satisfy the job's core requirement, almost all of the casino workers are from the mainland. And from my understanding of the situation the local governments lack of foresight and appreciation of the Chinese economy and it's status and place in the world economic standing means that they neglected to prepare their work force into taking up to study the Chinese language due to them largely being a pro-western centric with a very strong American cultural influence and outlook.

So part of the negativity stems from their governments failing to educate and informed the populace about the new China and it's actual place in the world. I mean, am sorry to say, the overwhelming majority of the Filipinos are mostly unaware and ignorant of how far China has come and the China of the 1980s is no longer the China of today. Unfortunately, for most of these people they still see China from the perception of pure ignorance which is why some folks in the Philippines have this tendency of assuming and thinking that they are somehow better and more civilized than their Chinese neighbor which is a hoot.

I know that what I typed here is based on my personal experience and must not be taken as an authoritative source of information on how Filipinos in general view the Chinese from China. But what my experience does show is that behind all these negative headlines that you love to interject lies a much more nuance and complex explanations that must be told and not just simply believe whatever negative nancy you and people who thinks like you fling around from time to time. Human beings are complex and we shouldn't simply try to make complex issues be turned into this silly simplified cookie cutter version to fit a very western centric viewpoint to perpetuate and keep the stereotype of bad "Chinaman" syndrome because it's an insult to people with high intelligence and actual common sense and decensy.