Arab Spring II in Egypt. The potential Civil War.

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

delft

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
It's not what they did before or during the election, wolf, it is what they have done since.

He was supporting Al Quida rebels in Syria, he was walking away from peace with Israel, and his administration (the MB) was persecuting and allowing the out and out murder of minorities in his own country.

As to the verification of this, talk to the tens of millions who rose up and protested against it.

The Egyptian military acted based on the public reaction to Morsi and where he was taking them.

As top running battles...these were happening much worse before the overthrow...much worse. 15-20 people at a time for days were being killed all over the country. Of course there is a backlash from the MB...but not fromt he general people on the street. They reacted with joy.

So...it was those people who ultimately decided this.

I believe it will hold. I believe a new, better constitution will be written and that a much more secular and fair representative government will ensue.

But time will tell.
Click to expand...
Initially he supported President Assad but probably because the military, which own 15-40 % of the Egyptian economy, took a lot of money out of the country so he needed billions of dollars from Qatar and Saudi Arabia and therefore he needed to change his policy to support for the insurgents.
Don't forget the MB are the moderate Islamists. The reaction of the extreme party might be very violent and damaging.
In the mean time the African Union has suspended Egypt's membership of the organization.
 
Equation

Equation

Lieutenant General
solarz said:
Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


It looks like Egypt is sliding toward civil war. I'm predicting that battle-hardened Syrian rebels are going be joining the fray.
Click to expand...

Gosh I hope not, the poor Egyptian people had already been through enough in the past 3 years or so. I think all sides needs to really compromise on their power sharing first before electing on a new president.
 
Jeff Head

Jeff Head

General
Registered Member
delft said:
Don't forget the MB are the moderate Islamists. .
Click to expand...
Sorry, delft, I do not believe that the MB is more moderate by any stretch.

They are supporting Al Quida led rebels in Libya and in Syria. They are egging Hamas on and support them against Israel and were trying to prepare Egypt to do the same.

It was this trend by Morsi and his administration, among others (like Coptic Christians being murdered and literally crucified in the streets), that led to the large protests against him and the military's decision to support those protestors and remove him.

Today's protests have been relatively small in comparison to those last wekend. I have a friend there, who was streaming live from a bridge in Cairo today where pro-morsi protestors met those protestors who met a group of protestors who had demonstrated over the weekend. The people against morsi were able to hold the bridge, withpout a lot of help from the military, although Apache helicopters were flying over at the time.

There is no doubt that the MB is going to seek to reverse this...but they are losing, and their leadership is now being rounded up for seeking violence. There is no doubt that other militants from Libya, Syria, and lebabnnon will try and get into the country to help them...but the military IS getting involved there and protecting the borders against such incursions...and that Egyptian military is strong enough, and powerful and modern enough to get that job done.

Time will tell...but I am much more hopeful for Egyptians and their ability to attain a more peaceful, more stable and improving life style now than I was two weeks ago.
 
plawolf

plawolf

Lieutenant General
The descent to chaos is already happening.

Just imagine what would happen if either side had real firearms instead if mere rocks and fireworks.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Those who think that this coup was a good thing is deluding themselves unfortunately. You may dislike the MB, but they represented the last, best hope for peace. There are many that are far far worse, most of which were actually kept in check by the MB and the promise of legitimate power they represented.

Pray tell what the MB and the real extremists will make of this coup? The MB were patient and restraint for decades, they took real risks with the extremists by not caving in to their radical ideals, and they jumped every hoop placed in front of them to come to power through free and fair elections, and this is their reward?

How can you expect them to trust in democracy when you have just demonstrated to them in no uncertain terms that all the talk of democracy are all just wind and the only true source of power comes from the barrel of a rifle? And thanks to western adventurism in Libya and Syria in recent years, there are now plenty of rifles in circulation, and lots of men who are well trained and experienced in using those rifles.

I fear that this will get a lot worse before it gets better. If it gets better.
 
SinoSoldier

SinoSoldier

Colonel
plawolf said:
The descent to chaos is already happening.

Just imagine what would happen if either side had real firearms instead if mere rocks and fireworks.

Please, Log in or Register to view URLs content!


Those who think that this coup was a good thing is deluding themselves unfortunately. You may dislike the MB, but they represented the last, best hope for peace. There are many that are far far worse, most of which were actually kept in check by the MB and the promise of legitimate power they represented.

Pray tell what the MB and the real extremists will make of this coup? The MB were patient and restraint for decades, they took real risks with the extremists by not caving in to their radical ideals, and they jumped every hoop placed in front of them to come to power through free and fair elections, and this is their reward?

How can you expect them to trust in democracy when you have just demonstrated to them in no uncertain terms that all the talk of democracy are all just wind and the only true source of power comes from the barrel of a rifle? And thanks to western adventurism in Libya and Syria in recent years, there are now plenty of rifles in circulation, and lots of men who are well trained and experienced in using those rifles.

I fear that this will get a lot worse before it gets better. If it gets better.
Click to expand...

Doesn't matter how fair the MB elections were. They were the ones trying to support Syrian rebels as clearly demonstrated by Mohammed Morsi even when many Egyptians were against this, they were the ones who assassinated Anwar Sadat who brokered a peace deal with Israel and was the most effective peacemaker so far, and they were the ones who attemped to assassinate another president of Egypt. Whether one government was elected or not matters little regarding its plans. Germany also chose Hitler as their leader, only to have him turn into a madman.
 
H

hardware

Banned Idiot
the islamic brotherhood are there own worse enemy,they are far more interest in islamic ideology rather than real issue-bread and butter,unemployment,inflation.
the closes analogy was the iranian revolution of 1979,the cuban in 1959 or the bolshevik revolution.(or the chinese communist revolution in 1949).theey are far more interesting implementing there ideology fantasy into reality,little regard to reality.result was gigantic tragedy.
 
P

Player 0

Junior Member
hardware said:
the islamic brotherhood are there own worse enemy,they are far more interest in islamic ideology rather than real issue-bread and butter,unemployment,inflation.
the closes analogy was the iranian revolution of 1979,the cuban in 1959 or the bolshevik revolution.(or the chinese communist revolution in 1949).theey are far more interesting implementing there ideology fantasy into reality,little regard to reality.result was gigantic tragedy.
Click to expand...

In all fairness, communists like the Chinese and Russian parties were quick to address real world issues like lack of industrialization and hyperinflation once they got into power.
 
D

delft

Brigadier
Jeff Head said:
Sorry, delft, I do not believe that the MB is more moderate by any stretch.

They are supporting Al Quida led rebels in Libya and in Syria. They are egging Hamas on and support them against Israel and were trying to prepare Egypt to do the same.

It was this trend by Morsi and his administration, among others (like Coptic Christians being murdered and literally crucified in the streets), that led to the large protests against him and the military's decision to support those protestors and remove him.

Today's protests have been relatively small in comparison to those last wekend. I have a friend there, who was streaming live from a bridge in Cairo today where pro-morsi protestors met those protestors who met a group of protestors who had demonstrated over the weekend. The people against morsi were able to hold the bridge, withpout a lot of help from the military, although Apache helicopters were flying over at the time.

There is no doubt that the MB is going to seek to reverse this...but they are losing, and their leadership is now being rounded up for seeking violence. There is no doubt that other militants from Libya, Syria, and lebabnnon will try and get into the country to help them...but the military IS getting involved there and protecting the borders against such incursions...and that Egyptian military is strong enough, and powerful and modern enough to get that job done.

Time will tell...but I am much more hopeful for Egyptians and their ability to attain a more peaceful, more stable and improving life style now than I was two weeks ago.
Click to expand...
Al Qaeda in Syria is supported by Saudi Arabia and Morsi supported them too because he needed Saudi money. Morsi was continuing Mubarak's blockade of Gaza so no conflict with the US or the military.
But the military thanks to massive subsidies from the US is well equipped and corrupt. They are a disaster for Egypt and have been for a long time much worse than any mistakes Morsi made. Among the 15 million people living in Cairo maybe a million profit from the military, enough to get big demonstration in favor of military dictatorship. But the large majority of the Egyptians will suffer and continue to suffer. It might take a long time but in the end this dictatorship will be defeated even if it covers itself with a pseudo-democracy.
 
D

Dolcevita

Major
I fear that the recent events in Egypt would only radicalized the MB. The democratic process in Egypt has failed miserably when the military was allowed to topple a democratically elected government.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top